Forum Index Skill Gem Feedback Ball Lightning

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"
Kagari wrote:
Increase AOE gem seems to work increasing the distance the lightning wires hit, removing the need of LMP. However, concentrated effect do reduces their lenght but doen't increase the damage. In a way it feels obvious because the wires aren't AOE but on the opposite they do get the downside.
Yes. Like Lightning arrow, Ball Lightning deals individual, non-area damage separately to each thing in range, but the range itself is an area.

"
Kagari wrote:
oh and yeah : could i have an exact explanation about the 200ms property ? Is it capped by ennemies, ball per ennemies, per balls ?
From here:
"
Mark_GGG wrote:
"
ComradeSerge wrote:
1) Does that also apply to all 3 balls cast from one cast when using LMP (and supposing we don't use spell echo)? I.e. of the 3 balls, can only 1 of them hit a single target every 200 ms, or can each of them hit the target once every 200 ms?
This is per volley - all balls launched at the same time from the same "firing" strike as one - the same as the non-shotgunning restriction against hitting the same target on Ethereal Knives and projectile attack skills.
"
ComradeSerge wrote:
2) When using spell echo (and no LMP or GMP), does the 200 ms limit also count for both balls together, or for each separately?
Each is fired separately, they have their own check.
"
ComradeSerge wrote:
3) Is there a limit to the amount of targets a single ball can hit at one time? I suppose the answer is yes. If so, what is that number?
No. It hits everything in range.
"
ComradeSerge wrote:
4) Related to the former question, is it sensible to use LMP (with echo, ofc) for better AoE clear, or is using just 1 ball with echo superior to it?
That depends on all kinds of other factors.

Mark_GGG
Jul 04, 2014 07:40:20 AM

It moves too fast. If one takes into account that the nemies are coming at the caster and the ball from the caster, the time in which enemies are being hit is very small indeed.

Couple that with no more multiplier support (no conc effect) and very small damage when compared with other spells (which can use the conc effect) it just seems not usable late game. Hope I'm wrong. Looks like it has the same problem old arc had, different mechanics from other spells (inability to support for real damage boon) and lower damage with insane mana cost.

Allnamestaken
Jul 04, 2014 09:46:06 AM

"
drixor wrote:
Just got this spell on my level 32 Shadow,

It is useless with gmp n lmp, slower projectile is a must.

I have not tested with echo yet. Will do when I get it.

Arc is so much superior than ball lightning in any way.
Maybe the spell scales better on higher lvls but I doubt it.

Only time ball lightning is just slightly inferior to arc is in huge packs of 10-15+ mobs.

What support gems are meant for this?

I can think of faster casting, echo, slower projectile and maybe fork?


"Edit: Increase aoe damage skill point does not seem to increase the damage on this ability."


Slower proj isn't mandatory once you reach enough cast speed. Doesn't help for me at least. My gem is only lvl 17 (19 thx to empower) and it only starts to get "ok" in damage. Single target DPS is terrible tho.

Thanks for the clear summary Mark !

Kagari
Jul 04, 2014 09:50:42 AM

"
Kagari wrote:

Slower proj isn't mandatory once you reach enough cast speed. Doesn't help for me at least. My gem is only lvl 17 (19 thx to empower) and it only starts to get "ok" in damage. Single target DPS is terrible tho.

Thanks for the clear summary Mark !


Isn't that the whole point of the concerns? It does too little damage so you have to use multiple casts against white enemies, which is a bad sign and will probably mean that the skill is not viable end game.

Allnamestaken
Jul 04, 2014 13:42:57 PM

"
Allnamestaken wrote:
"
Kagari wrote:

Slower proj isn't mandatory once you reach enough cast speed. Doesn't help for me at least. My gem is only lvl 17 (19 thx to empower) and it only starts to get "ok" in damage. Single target DPS is terrible tho.

Thanks for the clear summary Mark !


Isn't that the whole point of the concerns? It does too little damage so you have to use multiple casts against white enemies, which is a bad sign and will probably mean that the skill is not viable end game.


I'm not judging or comparing the skill yet as i wanna wait till i got a 20/20 one to have an equal comparison. But yeah, i admit that so far, it's not really promising ^_^

Kagari
Jul 04, 2014 13:54:45 PM

So here is the major problem with Ball Lightning.

Take this case as an example:
Take a level 11 Arc vs a level 10 Ball lightning, Both require level 49 to use.
Arc does 18 - 336 (177) dmg per cast
BL does 4 - 71 ( 37.5) dmg per cast.

Assuming that both spells cast at the same speed. Let us allocate a cast speed of 0.5 seconds.

Arc manages 344 dmg per second on a single target and 1720 on 5 (Max).

Ball lightning
However BL zaps every 200ms, so we can increase it's dmg per cast on a single mob by 2.5 times.
(93.75) will be the average dmg on a single mob. So it deals 27% as much dmg as ARC does on a single target.
While requiring 18.3 or so tightly packed mobs to break even on the max dmg per cast that Arc can manage.

In most situations getting those 18+ mobs together requires some leashing and grouping. A pack that size and that tightly packed is pretty rare without kiting and positioning.

Arc on the other hand, simply smart casts and seeks out the targets that it needs. Zero grouping is required. It even zaps around corners and behind you in a single cast, where BL would need to be turned and cast in that direction.

Now level 21 arc will chain 6 times to hit a total of 7 targets.
If the cast time stays the same.
493.5 average dmg per cast.
987 dps on one target.
6909 on 7 targets.

A level 21 BL will do
97 average dmg per cast
194 dps on one target (19% of Arc's single target, so it is scaling badly)
Require 36! targets tightly packed to equal Arc's AOE capabilities.

The scaling is horrible, it has no shotgunning capabilities, it has a harsher dmg effectiveness penalty and underperforms in both single and aoe situations compared to Arc.

If the dmg is going to stay this low it needs to shotgun at least.

If the shotgun is going to remain disabled, it needs a radius buff, a dmg buff and a dmg scaling that is more in line with other spells.

DeathnTaxes
Jul 04, 2014 17:12:21 PM

Would added lightning damage make any difference at all to BL?

Catchafire2000
Jul 04, 2014 19:05:23 PM

Everyone of these threads need the skill linked -.-

too late for 1st page ...


Ball Lightning
-
Click to expand
  • Level 1
  • Deals 3 to 48 Lightning Damage



  • @previous poster: 30% dmg effectiveness - damage supports won't help a lot

    Fhedaykin
    Jul 04, 2014 19:14:12 PM

    "
    DeathnTaxes wrote:
    So here is the major problem with Ball Lightning.

    Take this case as an example:
    Take a level 11 Arc vs a level 10 Ball lightning, Both require level 49 to use.
    Arc does 18 - 336 (177) dmg per cast
    BL does 4 - 71 ( 37.5) dmg per cast.

    Assuming that both spells cast at the same speed. Let us allocate a cast speed of 0.5 seconds.

    Arc manages 344 dmg per second on a single target and 1720 on 5 (Max).

    Ball lightning
    However BL zaps every 200ms, so we can increase it's dmg per cast on a single mob by 2.5 times.
    (93.75) will be the average dmg on a single mob. So it deals 27% as much dmg as ARC does on a single target.
    While requiring 18.3 or so tightly packed mobs to break even on the max dmg per cast that Arc can manage.

    In most situations getting those 18+ mobs together requires some leashing and grouping. A pack that size and that tightly packed is pretty rare without kiting and positioning.

    Arc on the other hand, simply smart casts and seeks out the targets that it needs. Zero grouping is required. It even zaps around corners and behind you in a single cast, where BL would need to be turned and cast in that direction.

    Now level 21 arc will chain 6 times to hit a total of 7 targets.
    If the cast time stays the same.
    493.5 average dmg per cast.
    987 dps on one target.
    6909 on 7 targets.

    A level 21 BL will do
    97 average dmg per cast
    194 dps on one target (19% of Arc's single target, so it is scaling badly)
    Require 36! targets tightly packed to equal Arc's AOE capabilities.

    The scaling is horrible, it has no shotgunning capabilities, it has a harsher dmg effectiveness penalty and underperforms in both single and aoe situations compared to Arc.

    If the dmg is going to stay this low it needs to shotgun at least.

    If the shotgun is going to remain disabled, it needs a radius buff, a dmg buff and a dmg scaling that is more in line with other spells.


    No, that's up to 194 damage per 0.2 seconds, or 970 if the target was to stay in range for a full second. Being more conservative, it can probably hit thrice pretty often, so 582 single target dps. Groups would break even at a bit under 12 targets. Damage effectiveness is arguably better on lightning ball, it only needs two ticks to become greater than arc (2x30% VS 50%). Arc is still likely superior most of the time, but it doesn't seem horrible, statistically speaking. The biggest downside seems to be the inability (or difficulty) to shock targets.

    QcRevo
    Jul 04, 2014 19:15:55 PM

    It's true that shocking is pretty hard with BL. However, a really good point to it is the radius.

    Currently have this :

    http://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAAAgMAAnEC4wSzBVsHYwelCPQUTRZvGYUaOBpsHNwelB8CJDwkqiepKU8snDGINsU26TvhPAU9X0SrRnFG10lRSbJSU1WuVcZWLVcrWm1dxmBtZ71tGW-ec1N2EXi6eQN-WX6vf8aCEIIegpuDCYM4i3qLjI9Gj6aQVZMnm6Gdrp97n9-iAKKjpwinK6dcp4SsP6x_tAy1BMBUwbTB88M6ykrPZdDQ2CTa3dsL3Ffd89-w4XPi9-Nq5CLk7Ow47SDub-98890=

    Using a 20/20 increase AOE and i prettu much never need to cast on several directions to hit the whole pack in front of me. The damage tho is really bad compared to arc obviously but i can solo lvl 70 maps without trouble with a lvl 17 gem. It's the max i can do tho. While in team i just switch to arc because it does everything better.

    Fun skill but so far, not in line with arc. Maybe we're missing something but i pretty much tried every support gem i could think of and nothing better than my current setup. Maybe building more toward proj damage could help but i don't see it being more efficient as spell damage.

    Kagari
    Jul 04, 2014 19:46:31 PM
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