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Despite what everyone says about barrage only being worth using if you have over 7+ projectiles, i disagree completely. Let's look at some numbers. All these are based on lvl 20 gems:

Cyclone: 56.4% dps with 50% more attack speed * 2(cyclone hits twice per spin) = 169,2% dps
Ice Crash: 208 % dps with 20% less attack speed = 166,4% dps
Sunder: 181,1% dps with 15% less attack speed = 153,9% dps
Blast Rain: 47,6% dps with 4 explosions = 190,4% dps
Blade flurry: perfectly timed 56,4%*1.6*2*(1+0.75*1.2) = 342,9% dps (this should also be touched upon)
Sweep: 138% dps with 10% less attack speed = 124% dps (could buff that a bit)
Barrage: 61,4% dps with 4 arrows = 245,6% dps (fairly high, but kinda acceptable)
Most builds however don't stop at 4 arrows. The most common variation I've seen:
4 (base) + 2 (uber helmet enchant) + 1 (quiver corruption) + 3 (dying sun with atleast 50% flask effect)
which comes out to: 61,4% dps * 10 arrows = 614% base dps. Wands get one projectile less, but that does little to fix the problem.

How this was okayed by the developers and never touched upon (apart from one buff), I have trouble understanding.
My suggestion would be either making it so additional arrows have diminishing returns instead of linear scaling, perhaps a Less modifier, like the hierophant has, or putting a hard cap at the maximum number of arrows you can have. I would also suggest lowering the base damage of the skill. Anything over 250% attainable dps makes it pointless to ever use another skill, thereby severely limiting the build diversity you so wish to have.

gigaomega101
Aug 27, 2017 18:25:14 PM

"
gigaomega101 wrote:
Despite what everyone says about barrage only being worth using if you have over 7+ projectiles, i disagree completely. Let's look at some numbers. All these are based on lvl 20 gems:

Cyclone: 56.4% dps with 50% more attack speed * 2(cyclone hits twice per spin) = 169,2% dps
Ice Crash: 208 % dps with 20% less attack speed = 166,4% dps
Sunder: 181,1% dps with 15% less attack speed = 153,9% dps
Blast Rain: 47,6% dps with 4 explosions = 190,4% dps
Blade flurry: perfectly timed 56,4%*1.6*2*(1+0.75*1.2) = 342,9% dps (this should also be touched upon)
Sweep: 138% dps with 10% less attack speed = 124% dps (could buff that a bit)
Barrage: 61,4% dps with 4 arrows = 245,6% dps (fairly high, but kinda acceptable)
Most builds however don't stop at 4 arrows. The most common variation I've seen:
4 (base) + 2 (uber helmet enchant) + 1 (quiver corruption) + 3 (dying sun with atleast 50% flask effect)
which comes out to: 61,4% dps * 10 arrows = 614% base dps. Wands get one projectile less, but that does little to fix the problem.

How this was okayed by the developers and never touched upon (apart from one buff), I have trouble understanding.
My suggestion would be either making it so additional arrows have diminishing returns instead of linear scaling, perhaps a Less modifier, like the hierophant has, or putting a hard cap at the maximum number of arrows you can have. I would also suggest lowering the base damage of the skill. Anything over 250% attainable dps makes it pointless to ever use another skill, thereby severely limiting the build diversity you so wish to have.


Death's Opus... GMP... Deadeye Endless Ammo...

Xavathos
Oct 04, 2017 10:57:45 AM

"
sherkhan wrote:
People here obviously agree that barrage is mechanically too strong because it's easy to stack extra projectiles for effective more modifiers on single target.

I recommend addressing this the Hierophant way - put an overall "less" modifier per projectile after a certain amount. This addresses the issue instead of nerfing sources of additional projectiles overall.


Thought about this too!

Was brainstorming about it today...Here are some numbers I conjured up.

At level 1
70% damage effectiveness, 5% reduced damage effectiveness per projectile
4 projectiles-> 70-(4x5)=50% x 4 proj = 200% dmg
5 projectiles-> 70-(5x5)=45% x 5 proj = 225% dmg
6 projectiles-> 70-(6x5)=40% x 6 proj = 240% dmg
7 projectiles-> 70-(7x5)=35% x 7 proj = 245% dmg

At level 20
80% damage effectiveness, 5% reduced damage effectiveness per projectile
4 projectiles-> 80-(4x5)=60% x 4 proj = 240% dmg
5 projectiles-> 80-(5x5)=55% x 5 proj = 275% dmg
6 projectiles-> 80-(6x5)=50% x 6 proj = 300% dmg
7 projectiles-> 80-(7x5)=45% x 7 proj = 315% dmg

The scaling wouldn't go through the roof with more projectiles.

The current Barrage skill's scaling also needs to be looked at, at level 1 you get 50%x4 = 200% damage against single target. Whereas at level 20 it just scales to 61%x4 = 244% damage
It needs to be weaker at lower levels.

JHWSX
Oct 27, 2017 13:11:44 PM

"
JHWSX wrote:

Thought about this too!

Was brainstorming about it today...Here are some numbers I conjured up.

At level 1
70% damage effectiveness, 5% reduced damage effectiveness per projectile
4 projectiles-> 70-(4x5)=50% x 4 proj = 200% dmg
5 projectiles-> 70-(5x5)=45% x 5 proj = 225% dmg
6 projectiles-> 70-(6x5)=40% x 6 proj = 240% dmg
7 projectiles-> 70-(7x5)=35% x 7 proj = 245% dmg

At level 20
80% damage effectiveness, 5% reduced damage effectiveness per projectile
4 projectiles-> 80-(4x5)=60% x 4 proj = 240% dmg
5 projectiles-> 80-(5x5)=55% x 5 proj = 275% dmg
6 projectiles-> 80-(6x5)=50% x 6 proj = 300% dmg
7 projectiles-> 80-(7x5)=45% x 7 proj = 315% dmg

The scaling wouldn't go through the roof with more projectiles.

The current Barrage skill's scaling also needs to be looked at, at level 1 you get 50%x4 = 200% damage against single target. Whereas at level 20 it just scales to 61%x4 = 244% damage
It needs to be weaker at lower levels.


Yeah, well, no... At 9 projectiles you'll start losing damage. Artificially reducing the potential for upgrades is just bad. Not to mention that at 17 projectiles (if it is even possible to achieve), you'll go into negatives. Unsure how you want to do negative damage.

If anything, it could be less modifier.

Base damage: 60% (at, say level 20). 5% less per projectile.

4 - 195,48% base
5 - 232,13% base (18,75% more damage compared to 4 proj)
6 - 264,63% base (14,00% more damage compared to 5 proj)
7 - 293,30% base (10,80% more damage compared to 6 proj)
8 - 318,44% base (8,57% more damage compared to 7 proj)

Perq
Jan 31, 2018 13:26:57 PM

Barrage is a good ability. Don't get me wrong. But ONLY for elemental builds. But then again, which ability is NOT OP for elemental? Cursed double dipping.

- the terrible 'per arrow' base damage means that damaging ailments deal practically no damage, same with non-damaging ones having almost no effect
- doesn't really make your weapon damage stand out as it only gets 47.5% of it out. High crit build is also kinda pointless, because even with large crit dmg multi, you're still working with low base, and therefore crits will still be low
- tooltip shows dps for 1 arrow out of whole barrage I think

It's mind-boggling how skills in this game work. I have LOADS of damage, bow damage, phys bow damage, global phys damage, projectile damage and damage against bleeding targets, but it's ALL FOR NAUGHT as any budget elemental builds deals 2-3x more dps with less investment (as any ele dmg you can get is at least 2x higher in magnitude - same as EDWA, not to mention way more common). Heck my frost blades character clears whole screen in half a sec, yet my phys barrage archer struggles even with single target.

This ability, as nice as it looks on paper, only really works when sitting in boss's face with Point Blank


Suggestion:
Deals (60-67.6)% of Base Damage
Deals 25% less Elemental Damage
Fires 4 additional Projectiles
10% less damage per each additional projectile.


(Volley Fire jewels don't count as those can't hit main target)

- would deal more physical damage, but would be a bit less effective for elemental conversion (or, well, about as effective as it is now)
- diminishing returns for arrow count. Additional projectiles are expensive AF anyway and I can't afford them :D

Peregrine1
Jan 26, 2019 21:41:31 PM
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