Forum Index Off Topic The Zeitgeist Movement

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Hi, fellows

One of the things that caught my atention on the GGG´s PoE is the way they are trying to build a game that doesnt have its gameplay improved by paying money.

Since this is an off-topic forum I would like to introduce for those who still dont know abaout it, The Zeitgeist Movement.

I dont want to make walls of text here so I´ll just leave the link here for you guys to further learn about it.

It is the revolution of our time and its allreaddy hapening all over the world.

Suport the Zeitgeist Movement and The Venus Project!

www.thezeitgeistmovement.com
www.thevenusproject.com

AND PLEASE BEFORE TROLLING THIS POST WATCH THIS: MORE THEN 1MIL VIEWS IN 5 DAYS...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z9WVZddH9w

lucaskf467
Jan 30, 2011 15:53:47 PM

Techocracy propaganda. Don't even go there unless you can think for yourself.

tormenta
Jan 30, 2011 20:18:11 PM

Lots of ideals and very little signs of evidence or realism to these claims. It once thing to say that the world's problems can solved with everyone getting along and another to prove it. The movement looks like a bunch of idealists that are not really doing anything.

Zidjian
Jan 30, 2011 22:38:39 PM

I´m sorry but i would kindly ask for you two to learn about the actual movement before posting your opinion.

If you can even call an opinion once you dont even seem to have seen the movies or read about what the project is.

Its clear to me you just auto-responded a generic "dont watch this" and "they are talking about stuff they dont know".

And Zidjian you make me laugh when you say this:
"Lots of ideals and very little signs of evidence or realism to these claims"

I´m sure you didnt watched the movie (or at least I hope so), because all it´s basis comes from scientific methods and social analisys from verry, verry respected people.

But you seem to have opinions about this subject. Id like to hear them so we can learn together.

And to Tormenta:
"Techocracy propaganda"
Since you labled The Zeitgeist Movement that way, could you please define that?

lucaskf467
Jan 31, 2011 03:26:31 AM

Hey, i have no problem with your point of view everyone is entitled to their own and mine is that it is too idealistic to apply in the real world. First off tell me something tangible that this organization has done to help the world as a whole and on the note of respectable people, and what do say comprises a respectable person. Level of education, political prowess, or something else?

Also on the note of telling people that the "bad people" or aberrant people will destroy themselves is ridiculous. Tell you what next time a new dictator arises lets leave him alone. He eventually take care of himself/herself right.....?

The end point i am trying to make is that it would be more beneficial to go and volunteer at a boys and girl's club(this is actually kinda fun i know at least 10 kids that see me more than their parents which is sad, but it shows you how much you can help someone just by letting them know you care enough to listen.) or homeless shelter than ratter around on a video game forum. What about third world countries they can't even do math you expect a technologically unified earth. They don't have the resources to grow there own food and you want free food for everyone. They have no money and you want to abolish it. You get my point. If this movement were even partially feasible i would stand behind it, but at the end of the day its not.

Remember this, my advice is to not let some organization, government, or movement tell you what is right or wrong, what to do, or how you should do it. Think for yourself look at the evidence and see what it says. Do what you can to make the world better and think for yourself.

Zidjian
Jan 31, 2011 07:48:52 AM

Since I have nothing better to do with my time I'm gonna watch this and I'll get back to you when I finish.

Alright so 52 minutes in some wackjob said that many of the people in prison are in prisons run by private corporations which is bullshit.

So it started pretty ok until 50 minutes in but after that it just goes into a bunch of conspiracy theorist gibberish, with no evidence to support it. And they noticeably got rid of the guys who had any credibility to their name and just had some nutjobs babbling.

1 hour and 20 minutes in they bring back the more reasonable people to talk about socioeconomic status and it's effects on people which is obvious.

at 1:50 he starts drawing very unscientific conclusions. Yeah, he's using scientific results to come up with these ideas but he talks as if he knows it's going to work without a doubt, which is unscientific because it hasn't been tested.

And it says that 95% of people in prison are there due to some monetary related crime or drug abuse, which is unbelievably incorrect.

Then they call soldiers serial killers with big guns which is basically arguing semantics.

then at 2:10 the movie starts to show itself for what it really is: Egotistical-know-it-all-circle-jerking.

And throughout the entire movie they've only had 2 people who had any credentials to their name and they're the same ones who said anything reasonable.

and for a movie that passes itself off as scientific, to suggest there's such a thing as an "in group" is hugely unscientific.

Well I can sum up the entire movie in just a title
Far Left, Economics, Psychology and Circle-Jerking: The Movie

Septile
Jan 31, 2011 07:50:41 AM

Ok, to Zidjain:
"First off tell me something tangible that this organization has done to help the world as a whole."
The first phase of the Movement is to educate, inform and spread the unsustainable form of social and economic organization we live in today. We have only two years of existence and the biggest concern is not only to expose the sick society we live in but to show a possible way out of it. Information to build a critical mass capable to think is helping society as a whole.

"Also on the note of telling people that the "bad people" or aberrant people will destroy themselves is ridiculous. Tell you what next time a new dictator arises lets leave him alone. He eventually take care of himself/herself right.....?"

I´m sorry i dont know what you are refering to. Elaborate, please.

"The end point i am trying to make is that it would be more beneficial to go and volunteer at a boys and girl's club...or homeless shelter than ratter around on a video game forum."

It´s obvious this is not THE place we aim to talk about and spread the ideas of Zeitgeist. But, since i also use this forum and since its a game for adults i thought somebody here could relate to it.

"What about third world countries they can't even do math you expect a technologically unified earth."

Thats why this sistem can´t (and won´t) endure much longer. The verry possibility of existing a "third world" is repulsive, or at least should be. Education of minds is the goal and can be achieved. But surtenly not in a monetary sistem.

"They don't have the resources to grow there own food and you want free food for everyone."

Wrong. They have resourses. What they don´t have is the money to make it, wich is ridiculous.

"You get my point. If this movement were even partially feasible i would stand behind it, but at the end of the day its not."

I desagree with you, since every point you made aren´t suported by anny base of knowledge.

"Remember this, my advice is to not let some organization, government, or movement tell you what is right or wrong, what to do, or how you should do it."

I´m sorry but you fail to see that you allreaddy leave by rules of an economy based on money, you follow the laws of your government and you fo exactly what they tell you to. To acknowledge what is the real base of the present sistem and its flaws is the first step. And, i´m sorry but, if you think theres nothing wrong with it then I really think you should research a bit more.

"Think for yourself look at the evidence and see what it says. Do what you can to make the world better and think for yourself."

I agree with you. The base of the Movement is exactly that. To educate yourself to be able to think on your own. Unfortunately "do what you can to make the world better" for itself could just atack a little part of the problem, depending of what you mean by that. The Movement try to go down to the cause of the problems of our present sosciety, not just atack some symptoms.

Respectfully,


lucaskf467
Jan 31, 2011 15:28:21 PM

Now, to Septile

"Alright so 52 minutes in some wackjob said that many of the people in prison are in prisons run by private corporations which is bullshit."

Please, link me annything that proves this statement.

"So it started pretty ok until 50 minutes in but after that it just goes into a bunch of conspiracy theorist gibberish, with no evidence to support it."

Again, elaborate and prove your point cause it seems to me you are projecting and abstrating your ideas. I can see your acusations but no argument.

"1 hour and 20 minutes in they bring back the more reasonable people to talk about socioeconomic status and it's effects on people which is obvious."

I´m glad you can see it is "obvious". But what are we doing to change it?

"at 1:50 he starts drawing very unscientific conclusions. Yeah, he's using scientific results to come up with these ideas but he talks as if he knows it's going to work without a doubt, which is unscientific because it hasn't been tested."

The Venus Project does NOT states and have never stated that they are perfect or infallible, neither has the Zeitgeist Movement, wich is its activist arm. Please refer to what is unscientific about the conlusions that he stated, cause I cant see it.

"And it says that 95% of people in prison are there due to some monetary related crime or drug abuse, which is unbelievably incorrect."

95% of the people inprisioned are there due to direct monetary/finantial problems or indirect social and mental issues related and/or caused by the monetary sistem. There are researches proving that in numbers and percentages. Ill find the link for you.

"Then they call soldiers serial killers with big guns which is basically arguing semantics"

In Zeitgeist:Addendum the institution of the Army is more elaboratly studied. And whats your opinion about the army? Im curious.

"Egotistical-know-it-all-circle-jerking."

I´m not gonna debate that statement since is not based in anny empirical knowledge what so ever. It´s instead a superficial and childish observation. I´m sorry, but thats how i read it. If its not, please elaborate every word in it explaining what is you basis to that statement.
And calling these statements selfish is absurd. Please explain it to me cause im lost here.

"And throughout the entire movie they've only had 2 people who had any credentials to their name and they're the same ones who said anything reasonable."

Who would those 2 be? And you understand that even these 2, whoever they are, they are advocating the Movement, right? So how can they be reasonable and at the same time all others are not, if it is all part of the same idea?

"and for a movie that passes itself off as scientific, to suggest there's such a thing as an "in group" is hugely unscientific."

Wich part exactly are you refering to here?
Couldn´t find it.

"Well I can sum up the entire movie in just a title
Far Left, Economics, Psychology and Circle-Jerking: The Movie"

Well, I wont even say nothing. Ill just let you explain all that and relate it (empirically) to the Movement.

I would also like to clearify that the Zetgeist:Moving Forward isnt the Movement itself. Before continuing making unbased acusations of it and relating it to other chains of thoughs (by projecting and not showing proves) please go to thezeitgeistmovement.com and thevenusproject.com and learn more about the actual basis of it.
You´ll find it in the UNDERSTANDINGS tab.

But thank you for your participation. I belive we all grow when discussing respectfully with eachother.

Respectfuly,



lucaskf467
Jan 31, 2011 16:05:02 PM

Why is it other people have to prove their points when the people in the video just spout random statistics and don't back any of it up?

I remember a joke I was once told: 14% of all statistics are wrong.

FruitLord
Jan 31, 2011 18:02:38 PM

"
lucaskf467 wrote:
Now, to Septile

"Alright so 52 minutes in some wackjob said that many of the people in prison are in prisons run by private corporations which is bullshit."

Please, link me annything that proves this statement.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0135074096/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_3?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=0131719505&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0GKT2TAS1HEXHH9GJBY9
Chapter 13.

"
lucaskf467 wrote:
"So it started pretty ok until 50 minutes in but after that it just goes into a bunch of conspiracy theorist gibberish, with no evidence to support it."

Again, elaborate and prove your point cause it seems to me you are projecting and abstrating your ideas. I can see your acusations but no argument.

That's cause there is no argument, just my observations 50 minutes in.

"
lucaskf467 wrote:
"1 hour and 20 minutes in they bring back the more reasonable people to talk about socioeconomic status and it's effects on people which is obvious."

I´m glad you can see it is "obvious". But what are we doing to change it?

Nothing, because all of this research is actually fairly recent and everybody should know by now how long it takes for things to change on a large scale.


"
lucaskf467 wrote:
"at 1:50 he starts drawing very unscientific conclusions. Yeah, he's using scientific results to come up with these ideas but he talks as if he knows it's going to work without a doubt, which is unscientific because it hasn't been tested."

The Venus Project does NOT states and have never stated that they are perfect or infallible, neither has the Zeitgeist Movement, wich is its activist arm. Please refer to what is unscientific about the conlusions that he stated, cause I cant see it.

Like I said, they're unscientific because they have not been tested.

"
lucaskf467 wrote:
"And it says that 95% of people in prison are there due to some monetary related crime or drug abuse, which is unbelievably incorrect."

95% of the people inprisioned are there due to direct monetary/finantial problems or indirect social and mental issues related and/or caused by the monetary sistem. There are researches proving that in numbers and percentages. Ill find the link for you.

You can try and find the root cause all you want, but the way they presented it was deceptive and people who were less informed about the corrections system would easily be misled by that, which doesn't make me think very highly of the movement.


"
lucaskf467 wrote:
"Then they call soldiers serial killers with big guns which is basically arguing semantics"

In Zeitgeist:Addendum the institution of the Army is more elaboratly studied. And whats your opinion about the army? Im curious.

I don't have an opinion on the army because it's not something I've studied. I do know that calling soldiers serial killers is just poppycock though.

"
lucaskf467 wrote:
"Egotistical-know-it-all-circle-jerking."

I´m not gonna debate that statement since is not based in anny empirical knowledge what so ever. It´s instead a superficial and childish observation. I´m sorry, but thats how i read it. If its not, please elaborate every word in it explaining what is you basis to that statement.
And calling these statements selfish is absurd. Please explain it to me cause im lost here.

It is empirical knowledge in fact, you can observe it by watching the movie all the way through objectively.
This becomes most apparent when they have the "audience" protesting their ideas and calling it Marxism, communism and so on. The way they presented it really shows they like stroking themselves.

"
lucaskf467 wrote:
"And throughout the entire movie they've only had 2 people who had any credentials to their name and they're the same ones who said anything reasonable."

Who would those 2 be? And you understand that even these 2, whoever they are, they are advocating the Movement, right? So how can they be reasonable and at the same time all others are not, if it is all part of the same idea?

The first 2 interviewees they had. The guy with the monster of a beard and the guy with a strong accent.
Just because those 2 advocate the movement, doesn't make everybody else who advocates the movement just as reasonable as they are. Just like because there might be some catholic priests who aren't child molesters doesn't mean all catholic priests aren't child molesters.

"
lucaskf467 wrote:
"and for a movie that passes itself off as scientific, to suggest there's such a thing as an "in group" is hugely unscientific."

Wich part exactly are you refering to here?
Couldn´t find it.

It's somewhere in the 4th quarter of the movie. Basically the old guy implies that there's an "in group" of people in power who want to stay in power, like they're all working together to do it. Very unscientific, I don't think I should have to explain why.

"
lucaskf467 wrote:
"Well I can sum up the entire movie in just a title
Far Left, Economics, Psychology and Circle-Jerking: The Movie"

Well, I wont even say nothing. Ill just let you explain all that and relate it (empirically) to the Movement.

While they say it isn't Marxism or communism or anything like that, and they're right to an extent, the ideas they're still presenting are very far left.
Economics because they're analyzing the economy, and psychology because they were talking about the psychological responses to this and that and socioeconomic status etc.
And circle-jerking because they're stroking everybody who is leftist and egotistical and they're stroking others and it's all just one big stroke job.

Septile
Jan 31, 2011 21:30:46 PM
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