Forum Index Feedback and Suggestions Please Remove 10% Exp Loss on Death

History

frostzor27
Nov 12, 2019 18:53:38 PM

I mean, op, it's not California or Europe, it's you who has to adapt, not us changing our rules to make you feel comfortable. If you don't like it, just go back to Syria, i mean Diablo 3

Peace,

-Boem-

IzaroPetMTX
Nov 12, 2019 19:18:42 PM

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Raxsyn wrote:
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MoLoK13 wrote:
My proposal - gain XP from idling in hideout. That way I can gain reach level 100 by AFKing and without all that frustration from clicking on monsters.


Actually that is not a bad idea either, players are complaining no one is offering any ideas and you have a good one.

GGG could allow players to gain double exp buff while offline or in the hideout up to the current level or two levels. This would help off set the exp loss on death. I still do not think it solve the problem and does not help GGG slow down player progression, but a good idea.



When someone is being sarcastic to the extreme level yet the person takes it seriously as an approval, this person's opinion cannot be treated as valid input, as regardless of the actual point this person has proven to be unable to look at the matter with the slightest grain of objectivity.

Issue of death punishment is frequently taken on while looking at all of the examples of ARPG games it is clear that this mechanic is core part of the genre.
The actual form of punishment might be debatable but total denial seems like a children wish to only eat candies but never actually need to buy them.

Anyways, I know that individual references are not the best way to debate, but still: you have never killed elder guardians on red maps, not to mention things like shaper or atziri. If you play on casual level and never reach endgame, how is the death penalty ever relevant to you? It's not like you are tackling high level content on high character level so the -10%xp shouldn't even bother you, especially while playing FOTM necro which is like the ultra safe way to tackle the current content anyways.

Grozaa
Nov 12, 2019 19:24:29 PM

Actually the root of the problem is not exp penalty. It's the how the gameplay has evolved.

Dying because you made a mistake and being punished because of that is fine for most people.

The problem starts when you don't even know why you died and is being punished, and the speed of the game is the main culprit of this situation.

Everyone is told that you need to finish maps in 1 minute otherwise your build sucks (even Chris implies this in his speeches). The entire game has been balanced around the so called "speed clear meta". Unfortunately the human brain can't really process billions of particles flying everywhere while you move at light speed for a long amount of time.

So instead of only arguing about removing/reworking death penalties we should also discuss about why players are dying so much that the penalty seems too harsh.

Mortyx
Nov 12, 2019 22:09:59 PM

"
frostzor27 wrote:
You need a way to be punished by making a bad character? Yes
Exp loss is the best way? No

Why exp loss is bad? Well, if my game just crashes it's not my fault, so why take away 4h of my life? On the other hand if my character suck I must improve so I need to spend 4h to do it. Exp loss punishes you not only by your mistakes, but for other one's mistakes and that's not fair.

Since you agreed that players need to be punished for character's death, then any punishment applied because of technical issues would be unfair. Which makes your argument irrelevant.

"
frostzor27 wrote:
Nothing will change as whiteknights think this system is good.

So teach us, sensei, what punishment instead of XP penalty would be good? You know it, right? You not joined this thread just to dump, right?

DivineChampion
Nov 12, 2019 22:25:41 PM

Can we get serious for one second, and talk about OP's builds?

Because literally every time we see one of these threads, all you have to do is look at what OP was playing right before he or she posted how much they hate THA DEATH PENALTY to see exactly what the real story is.

And OP: you have zero effective defenses on either of your Blight league builds. Level 10 Steelskin in a CWDT setup is like a meme, what are you even hoping that will do against map-level content? Every 3 seconds you get to block 400 damage... are you serious right now?

And why is your lvl 87 Trickster still wearing a Tabula Rasa?

Just... no.

The death penalty exists so that players will be forced to look at what they are doing wrong when they die repeatedly against content (they think) they should be able to beat. Only it seems that you, like so many others before you, refused to listen to the game giving you negative (but constructive) feedback and came here to scream into an echo chamber instead.

The solution to you not being able to gain levels IS NOT to remove the penalty. It's to improve your build until death is as rare as it's supposed to be.

ARealLifeCaribbeanPirate
Nov 12, 2019 22:43:42 PM

I'll disassemble your original post, because that's where all the strawmen are.

"
Raxsyn wrote:
I have been playing since last December 2018 and think this game is a blast.


So the premise of this post is that you are playing PoE for almost a year and now you're trying to fundamentally change the way that ARPGs have worked for decades now.

"
Raxsyn wrote:

The number one issue that I Have with the game is the 10% exp loss on death. It adds absolutely no value to the game and just wastes players time. Clearly GGG is not valuing players time they put into the game by constantly setting us back when we die.


You not seeing value in losing 10% XP for dying just means you don't value life too much.

"
Raxsyn wrote:

I have read most of the arguments as to why to keep it and none of them add any value either.


You disagreeing with other people's opinion on why they like having the XP loss doesn't objectively devalue the position.

"
Raxsyn wrote:

"Shows how good a players build is" or "Shows the players skill at the game" – players play for their own enjoyment, no one care about how gud you think you are


Players enjoy games in various ways. You apparently want to be piggy-backed to level 100. When making a character, building layered defenses is key to progressing the endgame. Up until maps, all that matters is if you know the game at all. After that, you have to make the right decisions or otherwise, be punished for attending a gun fight with a knife.

"
Raxsyn wrote:

"Gives those with better builds or skill an edge over the others" - no one cares, it is a RNG massive loot ARPG


Players who do something better than others should be rewarded for it. If you are looking for a game that rewards you for not having a strategy, try Clicker Heroes. This game is complexe, and rightfully so.

"
Raxsyn wrote:

"Risk versus reward" - what a joke, it is a grinding RNG loot ARPG


Again, this isn't Clicker Heroes.

"
Raxsyn wrote:

The reality of the of exp loss on death is its GGGs way of slowing down the advancement of players. Nothing more and nothing less, so GGG clearly does not care about wasting players time when those of us who are not the best at this game, waste hours regaining the same exp we just lost because of the exp loss on death.


Meaningful progression can only come if the goal you're achieving is difficult. You have to overcome many obstacles to reach the highest levels in this game and I am happy for that. Made it to level 98 alright last season. Doesn't mean much when everyone gets to reach that level. Outside of that, anything beyond level 90 is almost cosmetic as builds are balanced around level 90 and there's not much after that outside of filling out some life-nodes maybe.

"
Raxsyn wrote:

The game is already unforgiving as it is and players die at some point no matter what. So why add insult to injury when most content is either limited by six portals or in the case of the delve you lose everything once you die in the delve at the node you are at or the sulfite you spent getting there.


"
Raxsyn wrote:

The entire reason for Hard Core mode is where skill, builds and risk versus reward truly matters. Anything else outside of HC is nothing more than an annoyance and frustrates players to just rage quit.


You have a very privileged, one-sided view on things. I'm not a fan of HC. It's not my cup of tea. But clearly, HC is popular. Personally, I play SSF. But people like having that kinda risk. You don't, that's fine. You're good to go and play more SC. Do you know how many people would quit if they removed HC? This is a spiritual successor to D2, so HC is a vital part of it. Just shows you don't know much at all about it.

"
Raxsyn wrote:

Stop wasting players time and remove the 10% exp loss on death, it adds absolutely no value to the game. It’s a twenty-year-old out of date mechanic that nobody uses anymore.


It's used in a lot of really good modern games. You base this entire discussion on the premise that GGG doesn't want you to enjoy the game, but it's your mindset that's wrong. Instead of sitting down and learning about the game, you're crying for assistance. This is, as you have pointed out plenty, a game about grinding. Get over it or look for something else to play.

ArtCrusade
Nov 12, 2019 22:49:44 PM

"
"
(...)
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Death XP penalty is a punishment, and it teaches you that your character is not good enough.

[urlhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ea6UuRTjkKs]Is this really the best way of teaching a player what that player is doing wrong?[/url]
No one is going to watch irrelevant video on youtube, especially when you didn't bothered to properly link it.

"
the only effect the penalty has afterwards is determining a player's level cap (basically, at what point the player decides the effort spent trying to level up despite the penalty is not worth it, so he/she would rather drop levelling up altogether, thus not be affected by the penalty anymore).
This is true - in practice, bad builds or bad player skills are putting level cap on character (to be fair, consistent technical issues are also putting such level cap).

"
Basically, at that point, it's just there to stroke a minority's ego while immensely frustrating another.
Yes, and for both cases it is intended, expected and correct outcome.

"
I guess this shows why nobody is making any suggestion: whatever you suggest you'll get shit on for trying to reconcile the different points of view.
Wrong.
1. Players don't make suggestions because they realize they can't suggest anything better ATM.
2. Refuting arguments is not "shitting".

"
And this is also why GGG will never do anything about it.
Wrong. GGG aren't doing anything about it because they perfectly fine with how death XP penalty is working ATM.

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I am of the minority that it frustrates, so I decided to drop the game, but I would love to see it reworked to something both more effective at its roles at all times, and less frustrating at the very high level part of the game.
You can say whatever you want to, but no one is taking something written from free fake account seriously. Use you real account and then we are talking.

DivineChampion
Nov 12, 2019 22:50:05 PM

"
Can we get serious for one second, and talk about OP's builds?

Because literally every time we see one of these threads, all you have to do is look at what OP was playing right before he or she posted how much they hate THA DEATH PENALTY to see exactly what the real story is.

And OP: you have zero effective defenses on either of your Blight league builds. Level 10 Steelskin in a CWDT setup is like a meme, what are you even hoping that will do against map-level content? Every 3 seconds you get to block 400 damage... are you serious right now?

And why is your lvl 87 Trickster still wearing a Tabula Rasa?

Just... no.

The death penalty exists so that players will be forced to look at what they are doing wrong when they die repeatedly against content (they think) they should be able to beat. Only it seems that you, like so many others before you, refused to listen to the game giving you negative (but constructive) feedback and came here to scream into an echo chamber instead.

The solution to you not being able to gain levels IS NOT to remove the penalty. It's to improve your build until death is as rare as it's supposed to be.


That's one of the most reasonable comments I have seen on this thread. So much this.

ArtCrusade
Nov 12, 2019 22:51:45 PM

"
"
frostzor27 wrote:
You need a way to be punished by making a bad character? Yes
Exp loss is the best way? No

Why exp loss is bad? Well, if my game just crashes it's not my fault, so why take away 4h of my life? On the other hand if my character suck I must improve so I need to spend 4h to do it. Exp loss punishes you not only by your mistakes, but for other one's mistakes and that's not fair.

Since you agreed that players need to be punished for character's death, then any punishment applied because of technical issues would be unfair. Which makes your argument irrelevant.

"
frostzor27 wrote:
Nothing will change as whiteknights think this system is good.

So teach us, sensei, what punishment instead of XP penalty would be good? You know it, right? You not joined this thread just to dump, right?


You didn't read the whole thread did you?

BTW

"
frostzor27 wrote:

frostzor27
Nov 12, 2019 23:27:44 PM
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