Forum Index Bug Reports Cowl of Thermophile (and most likely others) innacurate description.

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Cowl of the thermophile has a LESS modifier on the helm, not a reduced.

i removed all resist from tree.

















guchgrabber
Oct 17, 2019 00:35:55 AM

"
guchgrabber wrote:
Cowl of the thermophile has a LESS modifier on the helm, not a reduced.

i removed all resist from tree.



















Thanks for your report, this is intended.

Additive bonuses to Resistances use the wording "+% to Lightning Resistance" or "-% to Lightning Resistance".
These helmets are the first cases of "Reduced Resistances", these are also multiplicative with the keystone "Tempered by War" which provide "Less Resistance".

I hope this helps.

Jatin_GGG
Oct 17, 2019 01:22:10 AM

To clarify the above response - this is a "reduced" modifer, and is acting in the exact same way as all "reduced" and "increased" modifiers in the game.

All "increased" or "reduced" modifiers to a value stack additively with each other, and then apply to the base value. Since these new items are the only source of reduced or increased resistances, this behaviour is trivially true, as there's only the one such modifiers.

That does not make them the same as additions (or subtractions) to the base value. "+10 to maximum Life" and "10% increased maximum Life" are very different, and doing entirely different things. Those two modifiers cannot stack additively with each other because they're applying entirely differently. The same is true for "+x% to Fire Resistance" and "x% reduced Fire Resistance". There is no place in the game where increased/reduced modifiers are the same as additions/subtractions.

Mark_GGG
Oct 17, 2019 01:40:21 AM

It is not stacking additively. did you look at the resistances per shot. i added a 40 resist ring, (the taming) it gave 20 resist with helm on to cold and lightning.

guchgrabber
Oct 17, 2019 21:50:40 PM

"
Mark_GGG wrote:
To clarify the above response - this is a "reduced" modifer, and is acting in the exact same way as all "reduced" and "increased" modifiers in the game.

All "increased" or "reduced" modifiers to a value stack additively with each other, and then apply to the base value. Since these new items are the only source of reduced or increased resistances, this behaviour is trivially true, as there's only the one such modifiers.

That does not make them the same as additions (or subtractions) to the base value. "+10 to maximum Life" and "10% increased maximum Life" are very different, and doing entirely different things. Those two modifiers cannot stack additively with each other because they're applying entirely differently. The same is true for "+x% to Fire Resistance" and "x% reduced Fire Resistance". There is no place in the game where increased/reduced modifiers are the same as additions/subtractions.



It is not stacking additively. did you look at the resistances per shot. i added a 40 resist ring, (the taming) it gave 20 resist with helm on to cold and lightning.

guchgrabber
Oct 17, 2019 21:51:08 PM

"Since these new items are the only source of reduced or increased resistances, this behaviour is trivially true, as there's only the one such modifiers."

so you added a new type of resistance description to the game? no tooltip to help.

more is to less, as increased is to reduced. if its a less modifier, call it a less modifier.

This item flys directly in the face of ALL previous item desciption modifiers.

guchgrabber
Oct 17, 2019 21:55:45 PM



I mean. can we understand why this is confusing. I kinda get what you are saying. and i have been playing this game a couple years couple thousand hours. and I had to read your description 4x to kinda understand.

Also not one person corrected me on the discord when discussing it.

makes a little sense when the base value is 100. when you throw this same concept at resistance.... going from -60-75 (135 point)...

cmon. im not reaching too far here to say this could have been deployed differently.

guchgrabber
Oct 17, 2019 22:03:56 PM

"
guchgrabber wrote:


I mean. can we understand why this is confusing. I kinda get what you are saying. and i have been playing this game a couple years couple thousand hours. and I had to read your description 4x to kinda understand.

Also not one person corrected me on the discord when discussing it.

makes a little sense when the base value is 100. when you throw this same concept at resistance.... going from -60-75 (135 point)...

cmon. im not reaching too far here to say this could have been deployed differently.


Here's another explanation using Physical Damage modifiers as a comparison:

Let's say you have 200 flat Physical damage.
If you gain "50% increased Physical Damage" then you will go from 200 to 300.
If you gain "50% more Physical Damage" then you will go from 200 to 300.
The above 2 are basically the same so long as you only have 1 of the 2.

Now let's say you have "50% increased Physical Damage" AND "50% more Physical Damage", then you will go from 200 to 450. (200 * 1.5 * 1.5)

Now let's say you gain 20 flat Physical Damage from some source, this will take you from 200 to 220, then we add the "50% increased Physical Damage" to this which results in 330, then we add the "50% more Physical Damage" which results in 495.

Now let's compare the above with how resistances work.
The flat Physical Damage is comparable to "+% to Resistance" modifiers as they both provide flat increases to their relevant stat.

The "50% increased/reduced Physical Damage" is comparable to "% increased/reduced Resistance" (The mod that's on the Cowl).

The "50% more/less Physical Damage" is comparable to "% more/less Resistance" (You can find this on "Tempered by War" Keystone).

I hope this helps.

Jatin_GGG
Oct 17, 2019 22:13:24 PM

I mean i get it now... I thought about it and why i got thrown.

Most things that are additively flat in this game to use your own example, flat phys or flat health like "200 to physical" or "+10 to health" are not already expressed as percentage values.

I understand now that "%xx to fire resist" is an additive not an increased. However it isnt stated as "+xx to fire resist." as most other mods i can think of off hand present that use increased/reduced later in the calculation before the more/less.

it

that timeless is the only interraction i have come up with where increased/decreased would not have been interchangeable with more/less.

I get it, but I cant be the only one who was thrown.

guchgrabber
Oct 17, 2019 23:45:48 PM

"
guchgrabber wrote:
so you added a new type of resistance description to the game? no tooltip to help.

more is to less, as increased is to reduced. if its a less modifier, call it a less modifier.

This item flys directly in the face of ALL previous item desciption modifiers.
This is not a less modifier, it's a reduced modifier. It literally works exactly the same as every other "reduced" modifier in the game. We just haven't applied the concept of "reduced" to resistances before now. It's not some special new modifier, it's just the first modifier for resistance that uses the "reduced" description, and it does so in exactly the same way as all other reduced modifiers in the game.

Mark_GGG
Oct 18, 2019 00:59:08 AM
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