Forum Index Duelist [3.8] The Fortified Summoner: CwC Raging Spirit Champion [All Affixes, Guardians/UE Videos]

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I remain hesitant to use skellies though; interrupting cyclone channel for casting really mucks up the smoothness of the build. Thanks again!


Oh, right. Silly me. Forgot for a second that this was a CWC build.

CaptainWARLORD
Oct 16, 2019 07:39:49 AM

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In response to your message:

I took a sweep over the build, and I noticed a few things.

Whispers of Doom imo isn't worth it. The lvl 5 Flammability ring barely adds anything.

You could instead grab Quick Recovery for the same 3 points for another 290 HP.

You could also grab another jewel socket near Devotion (2 points) for Life and Minion Life. This is about the same DPS as your 2 Curses, with the bonus of a little more HP or whatever.

You could save another passive point between Spiritual Command and Purity of Flesh. The 4% minion AS can be skipped if you ask me.

You can also scrap a few passives and pick up another 2 Endurance charges instead, if you feel like it. It seems you could use some work on defenses/speed. Damage is already there.

Flame Sentinels barely add anything, both noticable in PoB and your Shaper video. I'd skip them altogether and instead maybe go for skellies with Feeding Frenzy. The buff adds damage and skellies are expendible.

I don't really see the point of going MoM, despite using Gemini claws. MoM requires a free Mana pool of 40% of your total HP to be useful. I'd suggest to rather use Skitterbots or something.

That about covers it, I think. Hope I could help :) Build looks solid. Good job.


Finally got some time to go through your comments, and thanks again! Going point by point cuz that's how my brain works :p

Whispers of Doom: Agreed. looking into PoB it was only about a 10% damage adder. Thanks to your other comments I more than make up this loss. Removed and put toward life.

Endurance Charges: I feel like my endurance charge generation is not consistent enough to really warrant boosting the max number. Ideas for improving generation?

Flame Sentinals: I agree their single target damage is pretty insignificant. They are there for 2 reasons:
1. Mapping: they give some nice instant aoe. Nice but not vital.
2. Debuffing targets. I was already using them for the Exposure debuff from elemental army for a free -10% to resists on targets. Your comment about feeding frenzy got me to thinking though; since the spectres are mostly there for debuff application, why not use them to proc feeding frenzy too? I tested it and turns out ranged minions don't tend to wander off and get themselves killed with feeding frenzy, unlike melee units. Tested it out on Chimera/Shaper and had pretty much 100% uptime. Really good note about feeding frenzy!

Side note: This leaves zombies as just an extra damage source; there may be something better to do with that chest slot. They are extremely helpful for mapping, but not so noticeable on bossing.

MoM/Skitterbots: Let's just say I had no idea whatsoever skitterbots did what they did. Took me a hot second to swap that in; the perfect substitute for the discarded 2nd curse sockets! As I am now reserving basically all my mana (and have more life now too!), MoM is useless. Dropped, and invested the points into that last gem socket.

I'm a little skeptical of PoB's calc on the shocked damage taken modifier, as it's just a toggle in the config and doesn't seem to have any relation to the actual shock applied by the skitterbots, but going from the description it should be a 24% increased damage taken modifier, which puts it well ahead of the curse it was replacing; and got 500 life in the process! Will update the PoB now, and thanks again.

Peterrabbit_01
Oct 16, 2019 09:58:25 AM

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0piate wrote:
I see, looks like a well thought out build, good work.

Thank you! feel free to share feedback if you have ideas; definitely still tweaking and improving :)

Peterrabbit_01
Oct 16, 2019 10:08:51 AM

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Endurance Charges: I feel like my endurance charge generation is not consistent enough to really warrant boosting the max number. Ideas for improving generation?


Nah. I was merely suggesting it as food for thought.

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I'm a little skeptical of PoB's calc on the shocked damage taken modifier, as it's just a toggle in the config and doesn't seem to have any relation to the actual shock applied by the skitterbots, but going from the description it should be a 24% increased damage taken modifier, which puts it well ahead of the curse it was replacing; and got 500 life in the process! Will update the PoB now, and thanks again.


DON'T... toggle Shock in PoB. It currently only allows for full Shock Effect, which is 50% damage taken.

CaptainWARLORD
Oct 16, 2019 10:24:01 AM

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0piate wrote:
I see, looks like a well thought out build, good work.

Thank you! feel free to share feedback if you have ideas; definitely still tweaking and improving :)


Only thing that comes to mind is maybe try that build with the Maurader/Juggernaut. Then you can build up a tank and scale up Minion Instability. Maurader is closer to all the skill points you need, plus the Juggernauts movement skill would be nice for Cyclone.

0piate
Oct 16, 2019 17:59:30 PM

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0piate wrote:
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0piate wrote:
I see, looks like a well thought out build, good work.

Thank you! feel free to share feedback if you have ideas; definitely still tweaking and improving :)


Only thing that comes to mind is maybe try that build with the Maurader/Juggernaut. Then you can build up a tank and scale up Minion Instability. Maurader is closer to all the skill points you need, plus the Juggernauts movement skill would be nice for Cyclone.


Jugg would probably work just fine. Haven't pathed it out, but off the top of my head it looks to be a tradeoff between Champion having perma-fortify and Worthy Foe as a minion damage adder, vs Jugg extra movespeed+a bit more life/armour. I would argue the build as it is has plenty of defensive capability, and I would be hesitant to give up Fortify/Worthy Foe, but I'll plan out a Jugg version and see how it looks. Thanks for the suggestion!

Peterrabbit_01
Oct 16, 2019 20:08:32 PM

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Jugg would probably work just fine. Haven't pathed it out, but off the top of my head it looks to be a tradeoff between Champion having perma-fortify and Worthy Foe as a minion damage adder, vs Jugg extra movespeed+a bit more life/armour. I would argue the build as it is has plenty of defensive capability, and I would be hesitant to give up Fortify/Worthy Foe, but I'll plan out a Jugg version and see how it looks. Thanks for the suggestion!


Jugg is hard to beat for tankiness. You could always get fortify with him too, you can link Fortify on hit with your Cyclone, or do a Leap Slam with fortify in it. I just thought it would be stronger because it's closer to all the skill points you need.

0piate
Oct 17, 2019 02:01:35 AM

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0piate wrote:
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Jugg would probably work just fine. Haven't pathed it out, but off the top of my head it looks to be a tradeoff between Champion having perma-fortify and Worthy Foe as a minion damage adder, vs Jugg extra movespeed+a bit more life/armour. I would argue the build as it is has plenty of defensive capability, and I would be hesitant to give up Fortify/Worthy Foe, but I'll plan out a Jugg version and see how it looks. Thanks for the suggestion!


Jugg is hard to beat for tankiness. You could always get fortify with him too, you can link Fortify on hit with your Cyclone, or do a Leap Slam with fortify in it. I just thought it would be stronger because it's closer to all the skill points you need.


So I did a bit of playing around with the tree for Jugg, and there's some interesting results. Here's what I've come up with so far:

1. Can't link fortify with cyclone, at least not without destroying our damage. Current 6link is SRS/Minion Life/Minion Damage/Cyclone/CwC/Combustion, with only Combustion being an actual gem (Life/Damage are Helmet affixes). As Fortify support does nothing for Instability damage, dropping combustion is a non-option.

2. Can't leap slam/shield charge; using claws. Whirling blades maybe? Either way we really don't want to be interrupting our cyclone channel periodically to re-apply fortify. Not ideal.

3. We can just make up the defensive difference in health. This is about 1k extra health needed for equivalent survivablity against a single hit, and turns out since Jugg has access to armour boosting ascendancy points we can scale back on some armour nodes on the map and invest them into life.

What this effectively means is that going from Champion to Jugg gets you roughly similar survivability (Better vs Physical damage due to endurance charge generation, worse vs Elemental damage due to no Fortify), and ~15% extra move speed, at the cost of 20% damage due to missing Worthy Foe from Champion Ascendancy.



Edit: Pastebin link for those interested in the Jugg version.
https://pastebin.com/66midEhX

Side note: I wasn't able to quite make up the 1k extra health due to the fact that I ran out of life nodes in easy reach. Got about 80% there though, which should be good enough. Fortify really lets us get away with lower health pools, which saves a fair amount of nodes on champion.

Peterrabbit_01
Oct 17, 2019 07:32:44 AM

I only played the Juggernaut once and died very rarely. He is tanky vs. elemental damage too if you get Unrelenting in the ascendancy. The four second timer on Fortify on Hit gives you enough time to clear out a mob when linked with a movement skill like Whirling Blade. Then you can use Whirling Blade to initiate on the next mob to keep it going. An initiation/movement skill helps with survivability because you won't take damage as you are getting to the monsters. When you have a boss that takes more than four seconds to kill then yes you have to interrupt your attack if you want to keep the fortify. Which usually isn't a big deal. I've used Vigilant strike too as a utility skill to give me a ten second timer on fortify for boss killing. You can also get a five link two handed sword without spending too much, that would give you an extra gem slot to link fortify with Cyclone without losing your Combustion. The Queens Escape is a two handed sword with some nice minion mods on it. Fortitude in the Champion is more of a convenience, I use fortify in every melee build without it.

0piate
Oct 17, 2019 19:53:30 PM

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0piate wrote:
I only played the Juggernaut once and died very rarely. He is tanky vs. elemental damage too if you get Unrelenting in the ascendancy. The four second timer on Fortify on Hit gives you enough time to clear out a mob when linked with a movement skill like Whirling Blade. Then you can use Whirling Blade to initiate on the next mob to keep it going. An initiation/movement skill helps with survivability because you won't take damage as you are getting to the monsters. When you have a boss that takes more than four seconds to kill then yes you have to interrupt your attack if you want to keep the fortify. Which usually isn't a big deal. I've used Vigilant strike too as a utility skill to give me a ten second timer on fortify for boss killing. You can also get a five link two handed sword without spending too much, that would give you an extra gem slot to link fortify with Cyclone without losing your Combustion. The Queens Escape is a two handed sword with some nice minion mods on it. Fortitude in the Champion is more of a convenience, I use fortify in every melee build without it.



I suggest you review the gem links; we are already using a pseudo 7 link for cyclone :) . Regardless, Juggernaut can work as well. If you want the extra movespeed, and don't mind maintaining fortify/loosing some damage, PoB is in previous comments.

Currently working up to UE, I plan to revise and expand the guide based on my experiences. Any suggestions on things people would like to see/have explained?

Thanks for the interest all who have checked in on this build!

Peterrabbit_01
Oct 18, 2019 21:09:59 PM
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