Forum Index Feedback and Suggestions Can we plz zoom out a bit more in 4.0

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Chalace2 wrote:
Not to mention everything is already pre-loaded so the load won't be anything more than a completely unnoticeable draw increase.

Loading from disk has nothing to do with this...

The graphics engine and even lower down the GPU memory will have a (much smaller) amount of textures loaded, which are then changed as you get in range of things. This is pretty normal.

GGG has expanded the field of view when they've felt it could be done safely, but given that ranged builds are already overpowered, even apart from the technical reasons it is probably not a good idea to increase viewing distance.

Also, as others have said, even increasing the field of view a tiny bit takes a much heavier processing toll.

Cyzax
Oct 14, 2019 15:08:59 PM

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Dkodr wrote:
They use it ingame already, some boss rooms have larger field of view,
also if you stand on the far left side of the mine encampment.

There's many places in the 3.0 campaign where the camera zooms out significantly.

Nicholas_Steel
Oct 14, 2019 15:24:11 PM

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Snorkle_uk wrote:
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Chalace2 wrote:
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lagwin1980 wrote:
No, r.e performance.


Except for the data-range is already set above that of your view range.
Which is why you get off-screened. (Why they can't even set adequate attack ranges for mobs is beyond me)

Not to mention everything is already pre-loaded so the load won't be anything more than a completely unnoticeable draw increase.



they have mentioned it before. its not about the range monsters agro at, its about the way they have designed the world tiles and how many of them the engine is expecting to have ready to draw at a given time.

i think the way it was explained its like imagining urself in the middle of a chess board. youre on a square, there are another 8 squares around you making a total of 9 squares in a 3x3 block. the engine is designed around handling 9 squares like that. if you zoomed out and the game then had to handle an extra square in each direction that would be a 5x5 block, which is 25 total squares.

so thats more than double the amount theyve designed the engine to function around.

if you can go back in time to when they first made the game you just reduce the size of all the characters and the size of the features like stairs, tables, doors etc that are on the tiles and the game would still run on the 3x3 block of tiles but everything would be more zoomed out running at the same performance. but all those tiles are made now, that choice has been made and locked in right from the start.

4.0 would be a reason to change an outdated engine.

Rakiii
Oct 14, 2019 15:54:43 PM

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Rakiii wrote:

4.0 would be a reason to change an outdated engine.


too bad the engine is "modern" up to today's standards as GGG keeps improving it constantly according to information released by Chris himself.

Sure, there are rooms for improvement and continuous changes in performance are proof that they tinker with it constantly, but well. The design choices how to please the players might be overwhelming even for updated design.

I would expect bigger revolution in loot. More than likely they will make some serious RoS Loot 2.0 type of change.

Marxone
Oct 14, 2019 16:20:55 PM

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Cyzax wrote:

Also, as others have said, even increasing the field of view a tiny bit takes a much heavier processing toll.


Assuming the code is as messy as the rest of the game, sure.
Tho It is nothing more than what I expect is a set global data range.

Tho I don't get what your point is.
The data (client/server packets) are ALREADY being processed at a range greater than that of your FOV, as I already stated. (Evident by the fact mobs still process their AI's off-screen / minions still bugger off and fight off-screen, etc)

You only have to look at how things like the bearers explosions work in relation to your proximity to understand it.

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Edit: It's evident in this very post. Being able to extend the window to increase the view range. So, yeah, I just tried it (Flashback to my old WoW raiding days on Eyefinity for the extra view) Suprised it extends really, kinda makes me want to set up my Eyefinity again.

Point being, all of the data is already being processed for a far greater range than the default view. Being able to zoom out another 20% wouldn't change your, or the server performance one bit.

Chalace2
Oct 14, 2019 17:03:02 PM

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Absolutely not op. It would only benefit ranged builds and make them even more excessively powerful. You would be able to clear maps in even shorter time.

Mods lock this thread.

/thread



Then balance this broken game. I'm a new player and there are fireballs that hit me from outside the screen. Thats beyond stupid (especially if you play hardcore).

DMTrance
Nov 13, 2019 09:52:36 AM

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Rakiii wrote:

4.0 would be a reason to change an outdated engine.



well its not rly a case of engine, its a case of how they have designed the world tiles. having a 9 tile square vs having a 25 tile square, thats more than double the processing going on. it doesnt matter how much better the engine gets, it will always be able to deal with 9 far better than 25, so you would always build your world tiles around dealing with 9 and put any other processing power into other things.

its a massive thing to redesign essentially every level tile in the entire game, remodel and texture every single one, go back to all the code that generates levels, work out every area again in terms of how big they want it, what that means in terms of how many of these new tiles that are scaled differently you need in this or that direction. Thats the bit it sort of comes down to, rebuilding every piece of the world.

if they optimise the engine so it runs twice as well as it does now, and then zoom out so that its got more than twice the shit to deal with, then the result is the game runs worse than it did before. Do you really think they can realistically be expected to double its performance? and even if that was possible, would you be happy with them managing to do it and then having the game run worse than before?


maybe they will work out a way to do it, im no expert, but this is how jonathan explained it when asked about this on a few occasions in interviews afaik. theres some decisions that were made back when they first developed act 1 and theyre sort of baked into the cake now.


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Chalace2 wrote:
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Cyzax wrote:

Also, as others have said, even increasing the field of view a tiny bit takes a much heavier processing toll.


Assuming the code is as messy as the rest of the game, sure.
Tho It is nothing more than what I expect is a set global data range.

Tho I don't get what your point is.
The data (client/server packets) are ALREADY being processed at a range greater than that of your FOV, as I already stated. (Evident by the fact mobs still process their AI's off-screen / minions still bugger off and fight off-screen, etc)

You only have to look at how things like the bearers explosions work in relation to your proximity to understand it.



its nothing to do with messy code, processing 9 tiles vs processing 25 tiles takes more processing power. mess doesnt have any factor into that, its like saying 25 cans in a bag is heavier than 9 of the same cans in a bag, that isnt only true if the bag is badly made, presuming the cans have any weight then that will be a universally true statement.

its got nothing to do with data being sent, and its got nothing to do with calculating the movements of monsters etc. of course stuff happens off screen. im sure jonathans 9x9 explanation was no doubt a gross simplification of the situation but true enough to make the point. If what you see on your screen is the 1 square in the middle then the game has to have the 8 squares around it loaded up so that when you move into one of them the game has it ready to draw on your screen. if you zoom out so that you can always see those 8 squares by default it will have to load up the 16 squares around them and have them ready to go. I dont think its anything to do with the monsters on those squares or their ai or anything being sent from the client to the server etc, from what i understood it was about processing those world tiles on your computer to be displayed.

the randomised zones are made of tiles, like a massive jigsaw of pieces that can be strung together. I dont think theyre all of equal size, im sure theres times u have 3+ on ur screen at once and times when ur whole screen is taken up by 1, i doubt its always happening in this 9 square grid fashion. But theyve been made with the understanding of the current fov and what effect they will have on game performance. Theyve had no problem doubling the amount of mobs on those tiles, i dont think calculating monsters from further afield is really the issue, theyve specifically talked about having your computer deal with more of those tiles at once by zooming out being the issue.

Snorkle_uk
Nov 14, 2019 01:41:38 AM
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