Forum Index General Discussion So Diablo IV at Blizzcon this year(Chris interview)?

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HeManNZ wrote:
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codetaku wrote:
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Phrazz wrote:
The guys over at Blizzard are still capable of making solid games, even though the doomsayers strongly disagree.


What solid games? If you're speaking about RoS then you've already lost. D3 was never a good game.

If you're speaking about hearthstone and overwatch, I'll remind you that those aren't ARPGs.


D3 was pretty bad, but ROS made it a decent game which I played the hell(pardon the pun) out of for a few years. The major mistake blizz had after that was a complete lack of innovation or iteration upon ROS. Greater rifts and bounties got super boring real quick, which is why the 3 monthly league mechanic with POE is so refreshing.


I played over 100 hours of RoS (after 200 hours of vanilla D3). It never got good. The fundamental itemization was the worst, shit-tier trash imaginable, suitable only to a fucking MMO (which is why it looks like it was stolen directly from WoW).

D2 had good itemization. PoE has even better itemization. Customizability is key. D3 by a month in was a grindy arcade button masher, and D3:RoS was a grindy arcade button masher with entirely railroaded full equipment sets. The removal of the RMAH forced them to balance loot drops better, and I admit that was an improvement, but that improvement was completely nullified by the fucking railroaded gen-2 sets they made with loot 2.0 and the complete removal of trade.

Who the fuck thinks your spells should be able to scale from the damage of a 2H sword you're wielding, anyway? M O R O N S. Morons that work for activision, specifically.

The one and only compliment I consistently give D3 is the gameplay programming. PoE is finally, finally starting to catch up in this department, but hey, I can admit that a Triple-A studio knows how to write good netcode and a smooth as silk physics engine. But... that's not at the core of what makes an ARPG "fun". I would rather go back and play a thousand more hours of D2 before 10 more hours of D3.

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Phrazz wrote:
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pr13st wrote:
The only 100% sure thing is I won't be preordering Diablo 4.


Pre-ordering games is a ridiculous concept and screams "fanboyizm" a long way. Who buys a game without knowing anything about its quality?


I preorder every Nintendo game I'm interested in and have never once been disappointed in doing so. Nintendo and Nintendo alone delivers quality so goddamn consistently that I am happy to give them my money. When they start disappointing me, I'll stop doing it (and I don't do it for literally every series--just the ones I already like, like Mario, Fire Emblem, Zelda, Pokemon, Smash, and a couple more), but for now, I know for sure when I'm going to want to play the shit out of their games on launch day, and if I'm going to play on launch day anyway, why not preorder?

codetaku
Aug 26, 2019 19:25:29 PM

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Phrazz wrote:
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pr13st wrote:
The only 100% sure thing is I won't be preordering Diablo 4.


Pre-ordering games is a ridiculous concept and screams "fanboyizm" a long way. Who buys a game without knowing anything about its quality?


Please do elaborate on how pre-orders are any different from day 1-3 purchases?

Or are you suggesting people wait days for some Jack-bag streamer or youtuber to tell you what he/she thinks?

I've pre-ordered games many times for the perks. Sometimes its beta access, or early play, or boots, or cosmetics, or any of a number of different items.

Pre-Order isnt ridiculous at all imo, anymore so than supporting GGG and having ZERO CLUE what that money actually does.

Edit: Also anyone that doesnt think D4 will sell 20 million + copies is insane. The game will be an incredible sales success. As to critical nerd acclaim? Well everyone has their complaints about Diablo

DarthSki44
Aug 26, 2019 19:27:45 PM

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DarthSki44 wrote:

Edit: Also anyone that doesnt think D4 will sell 20 million + copies is insane. The game will be an incredible sales success. As to critical nerd acclaim? Well everyone has their complaints about Diablo


Yes, it will sell a lot of copies. Mobile games are quite popular, especially in China.

Aynix
Aug 26, 2019 19:34:49 PM

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DarthSki44 wrote:
Edit: Also anyone that doesnt think D4 will sell 20 million + copies is insane. The game will be an incredible sales success. As to critical nerd acclaim? Well everyone has their complaints about Diablo


For reference, I do know that D4 will sell like hotcakes. I'm just incredibly, incredibly skeptical that it'll be a fun ARPG, and don't plan to play it personally until I'm entirely convinced that it is. I also acknowledge that it'll absorb some of PoE's fanbase, but those are the people I could honestly do without--most of the people who actually believe that D3 is a good game are the ones that are encouraging GGG to make PoE more like D3, and that is something I want to fucking stop.

They can have D4, whenever that happens.


Edit: with all of that said, I'm not against giving Blizzard money (this isn't an EA situation... yet?), I just don't wanna pay for garbage. If they decide to finally make a Diablo 2 remaster and don't change very much, I'll play the shit out of it.

codetaku
Aug 26, 2019 19:35:55 PM

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DarthSki44 wrote:
Please do elaborate on how pre-orders are any different from day 1-3 purchases?


Because media/critics will have access to most game before those 1-3 days. Buying products like games in this age, without a single opinion from third party sources, is in my opinion gambling - without the possibility of winning. Unless, like yourself, people value the "perks". You don't know the state of the game. You don't know the quality. You're buying something totally unknown - in practice.

Yes, Diablo 4 will sell millions - despite the quality, partly because of pre-ordering people.

Phrazz
Aug 26, 2019 19:39:24 PM

For reference, I trust Nintendo literally thousands of times more than I trust IGN, GameSpot, or even dunkey (who doesn't actually get prerelease copies but he's the closest thing to a video game journalist I follow :P).

So I'll stick with the thing that's worked for me for literally decades, kthx.

codetaku
Aug 26, 2019 19:45:07 PM

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Phrazz wrote:
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DarthSki44 wrote:
Please do elaborate on how pre-orders are any different from day 1-3 purchases?


Because media/critics will have access to most game before those 1-3 days.


If I would care about media/critics opinion, I would probably never play any game.

Aynix
Aug 26, 2019 20:22:02 PM

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Aynix wrote:
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Phrazz wrote:
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DarthSki44 wrote:
Please do elaborate on how pre-orders are any different from day 1-3 purchases?


Because media/critics will have access to most game before those 1-3 days.


If I would care about media/critics opinion, I would probably never play any game.


This x100

If you think I give any shits about IGN's in depth review and synopsis, you are sorely mistaken.

DarthSki44
Aug 26, 2019 22:16:52 PM

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ffogell wrote:
Dont forget guys Blizzard was making game when Chris Wilson was still wearing pull-ups.


The quality/stability and support of their games is still way ahead of what GGG can pull out...

Dont underestimate them , we could be surprised.


This tendency in people to anthropomorphize corporations into humans is one of the things that gets us into trouble. You are litrally putting loyalty blindly into a company that has shown no ability to make a great ARPG in nearly 2 decades. Why? Thre's no rational reason for it. Because they made D2 and Lost Vikings and Warcraft Orcs and Humans? Because they are good/decent at milking WoW and Hearthstone? There's no reason any reasonable person should assume Diablo 4 will be anything more than a solid 30 days of slick cell shaded hack and slash.

David Brevik and a few other talented game designers USED TO BE why Blizzard made such good games. They are no longer there... Now all thats left are some other designers (some of whom are good designers) and a bunch of talent devoid CEO's and money men, who invariably (see Hollywood movies) ruin the creative vision of any talent they do have and allow for increasingly bland lowest common denominator appeal products.

This is the life cycle of literally every corporation that ever existed. They are founded on creative vision and then ruined when that vision is sold out for higher profit.

Blizzard owns an IP called Diablo... which in itself is a really generic mostly ad hoc fantasy backstory that has been retconned into B quality fantasy novella.

The IP isn't what made Diablo 2 a great game and this is fully bore out by Diablo 3 which was a kinda okay 1 month of fun sequel to Diablo 1 (in terms of gamplay) but a shit sequel to D2. If Diablo 4 ends up being a good game it wont be "because blizzard makes great games" and it wont be "because Diablo is amazing world world building" and it most especially wont be because the IP just automatically equals good games.

If it happens it will be because a good designer who's never made a good Diablo game yet (I mean unless they somehow got Brevik to come back) had a great vision and the money men didn't water it down and make it blander and more mass consumer.

On the other hand (and most relevant to this forum) If D4 is any good for more than a month, if it is to have "legs" and be better than POE 4.0 it will have to be because someone at Blizzard saw what POE is doing and learned a lesson from the industry leader in ARPG's

alhazred70
Aug 27, 2019 00:08:13 AM

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DarthSki44 wrote:
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Aynix wrote:
If I would care about media/critics opinion, I would probably never play any game.


This x100

If you think I give any shits about IGN's in depth review and synopsis, you are sorely mistaken.


I'm sure there thousands of Diablo 3 players, Fallout 76 players, Anthem players (the list could go on) that wished they'd let go of that pre-order. It's not just about media and critics, it's about the state of the game. Your expectations versus reality. Hype versus actual content. I never mention IGN; you did. No one listens to IGN. But people listen to the sum of all, and the state of releases.

I just think pre-orders are bad for the industry, and are one of many reasons why companies get away with releasing halfarsed titles.

Phrazz
Aug 27, 2019 03:24:44 AM
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