Forum Index Gameplay Help and Discussion IMPALE HYPE NEED Empirical evidence

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Have ANY of you guys ever tested the actual Damage of the Impale effect, or this is like religion... Lots of people practice it - it gotta be good.

I saw like 1293987 reddit posts, and 293048 videos, with some guys explaining theoretically what the mechanic do, some maths... and NONE actually testing damage with or without the impale effect.. with the Support gem and the 100%. increased effect of it.

Did some testing with 90% chance to impale, and 90% effect, just the nodes and 20% quality impale lvl 20 gem. And nowhere i see the 95% MORE damage from the 5 stacks everyone is talking about (5x19%)

And it doesn't have a logic. The impale gem even gives 15% more damage itself.
We are talking about double damage at the cost of 8 nodes and a gem slot (not even counting the 15% more physical damage that the gem gives itself)

Tested it several times with big slow hits (considering the duration is unlimited as the wiki states, without leaving the instance, without even going away from the boss.) only Physical damage, no bleed, no curses, no poison, no any other effects.

It is a bit hard to test with damage of single hits varying, because of the base damage of the weapon varying, so if anyone have an Idea, how i can get more precise results - please let me know ! any chance for FIXED damage per hit

...but from what i see in the currents tests, this has nothing to do with 104% MORE damage, let alone 200%+ watcher eye and being a champ.

twiztedmind
Aug 22, 2019 14:54:15 PM

Impale adds damage to each hit on the mob... even from sources other than the hit that applied the impale. You don't want slow big hits.

Shagsbeard
Aug 22, 2019 14:59:52 PM

I am asking about Empirical evidence, not a build suggestion. :)

What i am aksing is someone tested this:

U have 100% impale chance
U have 100% impale effect

leading to 5 stacks 20% reflected damage each = 100% reflected damage
leading to double damage per hit

Duration of each impale stack is infinite... as wiki states.

U use whatever skill u want.

u HIT mob once print screen... and see the HP bar of that mob/boss

u hit him 4 more times. 4 SEPERATE single target attacks !

at this point u have 5 stacks (if it works this way, which i doubt)

U print screen the HP bar - again

at hit 6 u remove 1 of the 5 stacks and Put a fresh one.

U print screen again.

U compare the hits

the damage done on the first hit and the mob FULL HP
the damage between hit 5 and hit 6

is the damage Double !?

cause i have some screens here showing something completely different.... several times.

twiztedmind
Aug 22, 2019 15:08:55 PM

everyones assuming the math works (and it definitely does at least partially we'd notice if impale did nothing) after that its a fairly simple equation.

Pretty awkward to take empirical evidence and everyone has better shit to be doing I think than testing a mechanic we are fairly confident works in the way it looks like it does.

Most tooltips have a damage variance so wide you'd have to do hundreds of tests then average them its just a bit redundant.

Draegnarrr
Aug 22, 2019 15:10:04 PM

I don't see this happening on putting the HP bars on a grid. thats a HUGE difference that should be noticed... that is double damage... i don't even need a grid to see it. I am just not that confident in my testing because damage varies. Even a suggestion on how to make testing right, so my math doesn't screw the results is still good enough :) ... any weapon with a fixed damage ? or at least something with a difference 4-5%... not like starforge 300-600 damage...
I am just not that confident that 8 points in the tree and a gem will effectively lead to 100% MORE damage. And the results i see after print screening several fights, i don't see it practically working that way...

twiztedmind
Aug 22, 2019 15:16:07 PM

Choose some map boss and do the same white maps with and without impale?

Count either number of hits, or time it takes you to kill the boss. Depends what is easier with your build.

G0rr
Aug 22, 2019 17:14:07 PM

I print screened. Tomorrow i will upload the 3 HP bars on a grid.
Used the mini boss in the middle of the square of act 10.
(used skill leap slam)

Thats what i did

go to boss. - HIT him

print screen - put the HP bar on a grid

measure the damage he has taken without any impale from 100% to 94%

so 6% of the HP bar damage done without impale stacks on boss
(used skill leap slam)

--------------------------------------------

now boss has 1 stack of impale

Hit him 7 more times (presumably to stack impales on him)

Print screen again

this HP i use as a starting point to compare the damage WITH (presumably 5 stacks of impale)

-------------------------------------------------

hit him Again

Print screen -

Assuming the mechanic works this way i should have done 12% damage on the HP bar comparing between the second and third screen VS the full HP of the boss and first screen.

That was not the case.

there is a difference varying in about 15-20%... but definatly NOT 100%

So... from 5 tests.

Either ALL my first hitS, from ALL the 5 tests did Maximum damage of the weapon of 600. And the 7th hits hits with 5 impale stacks dealed 300 damage. (and have been multiplied by 100%) And this is working as we think....

OR something is wrong. either its working as not intended, or we are misinterpreting...


1.What makes me think this way ?! its a 8 point +gem investment for 100% more damage. It is too good to be true.

2.If this is true, u dont put ANOTHER 15% more multiplier on on the gem itself.

3.The impale effect is presented with lancing and Shatering steel.

Quoting a Dev:

"You can have multiple Impale effects on an enemy, limited only by hits consuming the Impale. This gives Shattering Steel and Lancing Steel an even greater edge when they're able to hit a target multiple times."

So maybe u put more than one stack of impale if you attack once, but with the same attack u hit the mob several times, leading to several impale stacks. and every next attack removes the stack.

And this is more of a mechanic to build with, with skills like Barrage, tornado shot, Both steels which 100% impale on the first hit, and then 30% chance to impale with the second.

IF it doesn't remove the stack of impale you wont even need the secondary projectiles of Lancing steel to impale anyway... considering your first projectile impales 100%, and lasts for 5 hits.... why the secondary has 30% chance ?

and there is no drawback... like supports like Brutality, Elemental focus, u name it...

IF u have 100% chance to impale and use it on a skill taht hits once and puts one impale... then take it away on the next hit but puts another one. the effective damage of that impale gem will be

Impale support gem:

15% more physical damage
1.impale stack of 10% incraesed by 59% effect by the game itself.
40% chance to impale

which leads to 16% (lets call it debuff) with 40% chance x 15% MORE damage.
thats without any investment into that mechanic....

If you have 8 points invested. the impale chance goes to 90% and the effect goes to 90

so the gem is now 19% debuff and 15% more damage which leads to 36.85% effective MORE damage no drawback in the skill gem ! ... That sounds reasonable... constant 100% MORE damage after 5 hits. Doesn't.

And that's not even counting Watchers Eye and being a champ... in this case after hit 5 u deal damage x3.

If the nods were like mana reservation ones on the Tree this migh thave some logic... considering getting to 100% is a walk in the park and 2 cluster near each other, i don't think this is the case.

And usually after going form 4 link to 6 link and i put 2 x 40% MORE multi gems... for effective 96% MORE damage i notice the difference... thats no tthe case with impale... at least with attacks that hit ONCE per attack.

twiztedmind
Aug 22, 2019 18:02:00 PM

"
twiztedmind wrote:
Did some testing with 90% chance to impale


Ahem. You do know how the mechanic works right? You NEED 100% to see the amazing results, no question. And no I have no empirical evidence for you. I guess when the mechanic gets nerfed to all hell, you will have all the evidence you need.

GhostlightX
Aug 22, 2019 18:16:50 PM

"
GhostlightX wrote:
"
twiztedmind wrote:
Did some testing with 90% chance to impale


Ahem. You do know how the mechanic works right? You NEED 100% to see the amazing results, no question. And no I have no empirical evidence for you. I guess when the mechanic gets nerfed to all hell, you will have all the evidence you need.


You really don't.


The calculations done by some reddit user are very close to reality if you combine it with POB and measure it based on how fast it takes a T16 boss. The gain from a fully amped impale char is around 130-140% more damage and that is certainly easy to tell from in game performance.

Nephalim
Aug 22, 2019 18:25:18 PM

It does make sense to have 100% for testing purposes though.

VolcanoElixir
Aug 22, 2019 18:26:47 PM
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