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Ok, so the game is too easy for you, play HCSSF what's the problem? Too easy still?

MaxGor31
Aug 23, 2019 10:52:12 AM

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Dr1MaR wrote:
It s not the last time I create this kind of thread and will continue doing so until ggg wakes up and try to make an actual engaging Arpg


I like that you think it's a 'when', not an 'if'. That's what 'until' means here. You're implying if you do it enough, it'll work. I'm not sure where you're getting that level of confidence, but it's seriously impressive given just how much evidence there is that it won't work, no matter how much you do it.

Here's your first barrier: you need to convince TencentGGG that your idea of 'actual engaging ARPG' is an objective truth and not just an opinion. Because as long as it's just an opinion, and their idea of an 'actual engaging ARPG' is different to yours...and they're the ones with all the control...your opinion's going to have as much impact as a fart in a hurricane.

And if you manage to overcome that barrier, then your real work begins. Then you need to convince them that making an actual engaging ARPG by your definition of it is going to be as cost-effective and profitable as what you're doing now. And by 'making' what you're really saying is 'invest a lot of resources into reforming the hell out of what is by all measures an already very profitable product with no fatal flaws'. GOOD LUCK WITH THAT! ^_^




I am convinced the current model of their gameplay design is going to fail sooner or later. It's like the US economy, it holds on but going to collapse one way or another, maybe in 50, maybe in 100 years, but it will. There is no way people will be enjoying same old "slash monsters and watch tv" in 5-10 years from now. There will be better ARPGs out there that can provide more value to its player: more depth, more gameplay, better engine, more end game options. Poe is really is all about holding 1 button and collecting loot all day. How long can it hold the crown of ARPG genre like this? I think GGG is aware of this and I hope 4.0 can change poe not only graphics wise but gameplay wise as well. It doesn't have to be an extremely hardcore ARPG like it used to be in 2013. But what we have right now is beyond ridiculous, all the fun content is buried behind an unreasonable amount of grind and time investment. Back in 2013 it was a challenge to get past yellow maps. Now you have to grind for days and days to get to an approximate level of difficulty. There has to be some middle ground.
I don't even think I voice my opinion, this is facts. What the game has become compare to before is obvious. People are just in denial because they don't want to put effort in. Instant gratification and all that bs. I don't view gaming that way. You have to earn your gear, fight your way thru layers of bullshit to get to be godlike. I create this threads as a reminder that gaming should always be that way, instant gratification games will be dying off soon enough imo, it's just too many of them out there atm.

Dr1MaR
Aug 24, 2019 04:30:09 AM

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Xavathos wrote:


Yes, which is perfectly fine, because that's what a ARPG is.
Few things are nothing worse than games trying to be what they're not. Or people, for that matter.


Who defined ARPG genre to be this way? Why we put labels on what ARPG should be like and what it shouldn't be like?

Dr1MaR
Aug 24, 2019 04:34:31 AM

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Dr1MaR wrote:

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Look I ve barely played synthesis and now I ve been playing legion only 2h a day, got myself to lvl 94 and just can’t even force myself to login, the grind is so boring like how long ppl can actually enjoy this? They should put more stuff in the game that can actually kill you.

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checks character, sees meta ez-mode character (Cylone), understands everything

well, if your way of playing the game is to pick the BUSTED option, you are effectively cheating and playing it on ultra-easy. yes, even in hardcore.

this game is challenging and can provide you some of that what you need IF you opt-out of 'easy mode' - aka abusing idiotic balancing decisions (made on purpose or by sheer accident) that pretty much trivialise entire game


I understand that Cyclone is 'nice' to play. but it is nice to play not only because of smoothnes (aka not having all the issues other melee skills have) but also because it is like 5 times (literaly) better at EVERYTHING than EVERYTHING else

you did that to yourself, used cheat codes and the game and now complain the difficulty (and associated challenge and excitement) is not there

want that feeling back? make Burning Arrow character. make Dual Strike character. you know, the skills we all know are weak.

with them this game is still fresh. with meta stuff? it is no longer a 'game' (activity when you can win or lose - with Cyclone losing is not an option)

sidtherat
Aug 24, 2019 07:16:39 AM

plays game by grinding gear games . complains about grinding . 4Head . pepega . its like playing minecraft and complaining about all the mining lul

wowchobit
Aug 24, 2019 09:15:02 AM

The proper saying is "I couldn't care less" not "I can care less".

Celebrate the revamp of the inset map.

Turtledove
Aug 24, 2019 09:24:25 AM

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sidtherat wrote:
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Dr1MaR wrote:

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Look I ve barely played synthesis and now I ve been playing legion only 2h a day, got myself to lvl 94 and just can’t even force myself to login, the grind is so boring like how long ppl can actually enjoy this? They should put more stuff in the game that can actually kill you.

...


checks character, sees meta ez-mode character (Cylone), understands everything

well, if your way of playing the game is to pick the BUSTED option, you are effectively cheating and playing it on ultra-easy. yes, even in hardcore.

this game is challenging and can provide you some of that what you need IF you opt-out of 'easy mode' - aka abusing idiotic balancing decisions (made on purpose or by sheer accident) that pretty much trivialise entire game


I understand that Cyclone is 'nice' to play. but it is nice to play not only because of smoothnes (aka not having all the issues other melee skills have) but also because it is like 5 times (literaly) better at EVERYTHING than EVERYTHING else

you did that to yourself, used cheat codes and the game and now complain the difficulty (and associated challenge and excitement) is not there

want that feeling back? make Burning Arrow character. make Dual Strike character. you know, the skills we all know are weak.

with them this game is still fresh. with meta stuff? it is no longer a 'game' (activity when you can win or lose - with Cyclone losing is not an option)


So you are saying because of poor GGG balancing I have to play a shit build to enjoy the game? Do you really justify that? This is not using cheat codes. This is me picking 1 skill and making a build with it. If the game allows me to do so how is it cheating then?

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wowchobit wrote:
plays game by grinding gear games . complains about grinding . 4Head . pepega . its like playing minecraft and complaining about all the mining lul


I don't mind the grinding, i played a few MMORPGs before and there was a lot of grinding. Grinding should be at least fun, not just hold 1 button and watch everything die. That's just zombie mode gameplay.

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Turtledove wrote:
The proper saying is "I couldn't care less" not "I can care less".

Celebrate the revamp of the inset map.


Thanks for the correction

Dr1MaR
Aug 25, 2019 02:24:35 AM

Why do you act like an elite when you got nothing to show for?

FG_Glory56
Aug 25, 2019 02:45:45 AM

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Xavathos wrote:

Yes, which is perfectly fine, because that's what a ARPG is.
Few things are nothing worse than games trying to be what they're not. Or people, for that matter.


You realize that that's actually not true?

Dark-Souls also falls under the ARPG-genre... the difference is the 'looter' aspect of the game.

ARPG is not such a shallow term in which you can say 'everything similar to D2 is an ARPG'. That's not how it goes.

A good looter-ARPG combines meaningful combat with tactical choices while providing challenges and interesting loot.
PoE got interesting loot but the combat is lack-luster by now. It's shiny, that much can be said... but not 'good'. Tactical choices are barely existing, challenging-content is also barely existing. While a good looter-ARPG needs a barrier of entrance regarded to power-level of a character it by no means should even have the notion of trivializing content, usually games implement a proper scaling-mechanic for this reason.

So, a good ARPG basically looks like the following:
Mod-variability of PoE
Build-variability of PoE
Boss-mechanics similar to Dark Souls
'Common' areas similar to Grim Dawn (focused on specific mobs and damage-types to allow planning)
Item power-level focus similar to Chronicon (Nice little ARPG, very casual though)

Neither play-speed, depth nor itemization describe what an ARPG is... it's solely an RPG focused around action-intensive game-play. Given the goal which PoE tries to reach it has to look further then D2, it's stiffling it's own options this way.

We lack proper boss-fights... heck... even Guild Wars 2 has better bosses by a LOT compared to PoE. This means meaningful loot unique to the bosses, conditional drops which can only be gotten when very narrow conditions are met for extra challenge (Similar to hacking off the tails of bosses in Dark Souls, but adjusted to PoE, so specific skill- or equipment-combinations as an example) and MOST IMPORTANT... unique mechanics for every single one of them. Phases, positioning, interaction with the area. A boss is supposed to be a challenge, right now it's just another DPS-check. There can be SOME of those... but we got ALL. That's simply lazy.
Also this means content with a difficulty we can see beforehand. The spikes in that are absolutely awful, 10 triple-damage maps nothing happens, it's a breeze... the 11th you suddenly get a rare combination of mods which just annihilate your build out of nowhere. Such spikes are usually reserved for end-game content meant as a permanent challenge, not progression towards uber-elder (Main story-line).
We also lack a proper item-system. Top gear can be obtained with lvl 80, this is ridiculous. No other game which is supposed to be long-term viable allows a character to obtain the strongest gear 20% before its end. Top-gear should be barred behind higher levels, hence 94, 96 or even 100 for god-tier items. The whole level-requirement system needs to be re-worked, it's obviously never been done and still has the 'beta' days in mind even.

I could also talk about obvious issues which never have been resolved during the time the game exists. Double-dipping conversion (which isn't conversion but a multiplier, great beginner-trap!) or the leech/on-hit life and mana issue versus damage potential of the mobs (They need to be directly correlated after all, hence ruining every other life-flask option besides insta-flasks with bleed). But that's not the core, that's just stacked on top of it.

So no... PoE is NOT the prime example of ARPG's, it's just 'another one' out there, one with a long history and vast amount of itemization available, hence shining in the wasteland of lackluster mechanics in many other games, and those which have great itemization lack content because of their age, or thrive to get to the top rather then just being 'another one' on the market which sells decent.

Grinding can be a fantastic experience... but only if done right. GGG does a decent (not great) job at giving us that. The issue is they lack in other important parts to make up for the shallow hull the game is starting to become over time.

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FG_Glory56 wrote:
Why do you act like an elite when you got nothing to show for?


By your own words you are the last one able to give any comment to this topic then.
Neither do you have any achievements in the league, nor do you provide insight into your characters.

Gladly one can speak up for issues even without a need to have any post uber-elder character, though having one shows at least basic understanding of the game. In that case providing any substantial input to a discussion rather then throwing needless attacks towards other people is the usual way to go so someone finds it reasonable enough to answer.
Gladly you're also the prime example for a toxic post, and since people started answering to them far too much (everyone falls into the trap) I hope after my comment the discussion stays on topic instead of more people providing petty comments as yours.

Kulze
Aug 25, 2019 03:54:40 AM

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Dr1MaR wrote:


So you are saying because of poor GGG balancing I have to play a shit build to enjoy the game? Do you really justify that? This is not using cheat codes. This is me picking 1 skill and making a build with it. If the game allows me to do so how is it cheating then?


in fact - thats precisely what i say

you cheated yourself out of any challenge. you play this game long enough to know the state of this game. that it has few auto-win choices so 'we all can be winners' that you CANNOT FAIL.

if you pick any of these (very limited) choices - you cannot expect any form of challenge.

so yes, if you want to feel that you are actually accomplishing something other than 'chaos per hour' - pick something that you KNOW is 'weak'. youll have a great time trying to make them work

here are few suggestions:

Burning Arrow
Heavy Strike
Dominating Blow
Cleave
ShockWave Totem

or any non-Cyclone melee in general

however, if you 'know' abovementioned skills are unplayuable and you do not want to bother with them - you are in a tough spot. you wont be challenged when playing 'the build' that GGG put into the game PRECISELY so people dont have to be challenged

sidtherat
Aug 26, 2019 07:01:48 AM
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