Forum Index Scion [3.8] Poet's Pen + Volatile Dead, Uber Elder deathless.

History

"
hobbes3k wrote:

What's your frenzy attack speed unbuffed and buffed? Also, I would think Art of the Gladiator would be more rounded and better than Fusillade.


5.75 without buffs
8.62 no flask just attacking til corpses have stacked
9.43 with flasks and corpses stacked
12.35 with everything (frenzy/flasks/corpses/etc)

I agree and plan to switch to Art of the Gladiator. I've been lazy and haven't bothered to buy a golden oil. Whenever one finally drops I'll make the change.



FYI, Uber elder down, 1 death because I'm bad. Only gear change was I bought a +1 max res Kaom's Heart with lower fire damage.

YupYesYeah
Sep 13, 2019 00:54:40 AM

"
YupYesYeah wrote:
"
hobbes3k wrote:

What's your frenzy attack speed unbuffed and buffed? Also, I would think Art of the Gladiator would be more rounded and better than Fusillade.


5.75 without buffs
8.62 no flask just attacking til corpses have stacked
9.43 with flasks and corpses stacked
12.35 with everything (frenzy/flasks/corpses/etc)

I agree and plan to switch to Art of the Gladiator. I've been lazy and haven't bothered to buy a golden oil. Whenever one finally drops I'll make the change.



FYI, Uber elder down, 1 death because I'm bad. Only gear change was I bought a +1 max res Kaom's Heart with lower fire damage.


Actually, I realized if you just use spell cascade for both desecrate and VD then I can raise my unbuffed 5.25 APS (hideout) to 13+ lol. Then I moved combustion to frenzy so I can still apply the -19% fire resist. Lastly, since you only need spell cascade+desecrate on your main hand, you can put an aura (I put anger) for the extra +3 spell levels.

hobbes3k
Sep 13, 2019 11:41:15 AM

Hello,

I'm thinking about doing a Necromancer VD build, but I just don't understand why every build takes minion damage nodes on the tree while the VD isn't a minion skill and scales with minion life according to the description. I can see on Path of Building that taking those nodes
effectively raise DPS, but could someone explain me why that works?

SoulGin
Sep 13, 2019 12:50:26 PM

"
hobbes3k wrote:

Actually, I realized if you just use spell cascade for both desecrate and VD then I can raise my unbuffed 5.25 APS (hideout) to 13+ lol. Then I moved combustion to frenzy so I can still apply the -19% fire resist. Lastly, since you only need spell cascade+desecrate on your main hand, you can put an aura (I put anger) for the extra +3 spell levels.

This is actually a great idea.

I tested it out a bit and done some theory crafting and here are the results(if i didnt make any mistake).

1. this brings(theoretically) the difference between enchant and no enchant closer together. From testing in hideout:
- with enchant consistent 8 balls per cast, sometimes 9, very rarely 7. So average 8.
- without enchant, 6-8 balls per cast. Average 7.

So the enchant is "only" 14% more "dps", as compared to before, 33%.
But this does not take into account the aps gain from extra corpses consumed with enchant. So in reality the dps boost from enchant could be even larger. Would need more in depth testing for and theory crafting to be sure.

And while clearing there will be exta corpses for more balls.

2. Very easy to hit aps caps. Switching to this setup in the new dps tree would theoretically cap out the aps at 31.43! But sadly it is not possible, with best CDR gear the cap is slightly under 18 aps.

On standard test character with barely any attack speed investment i could stay between 12-13 spamming in HO. At around 10 aps while moving(trying to simulate clearing). No frenzy charges. Already this character requires CDR
Standard test char

tree ,was testing indigon. No attack speed jewels.

Notable gear:
The Poet's Pen
Carved Wand
Click to expand
  • Damage Penetrates 8% Elemental Resistances
  • +1 to Level of Socketed Active Skill Gems per 25 Player Levels
  • Trigger a Socketed Spell when you Attack with this Weapon
  • Adds 3 to 5 Physical Damage to Attacks with this Weapon per 3 Player Levels
  • 12% increased Attack Speed
  • In every piece of prose, lies a tiny spark of magic.

    The Poet's Pen
    Carved Wand
    Click to expand
  • 20% increased Area of Effect
  • +1 to Level of Socketed Active Skill Gems per 25 Player Levels
  • Trigger a Socketed Spell when you Attack with this Weapon
  • Adds 3 to 5 Physical Damage to Attacks with this Weapon per 3 Player Levels
  • 12% increased Attack Speed
  • In every piece of prose, lies a tiny spark of magic.

    Ghoul Crown
    Bone Helmet
    Click to expand
  • Minions deal 20% increased Damage
  • +24 to maximum Life
  • 3% increased maximum Life
  • +47% to Fire Resistance
  • +24% to Chaos Resistance
  • Nearby Enemies have -9% to Fire Resistance
  • +69 to maximum Life
  • Wrath Vise
    Fingerless Silk Gloves
    Click to expand
  • 16% increased Spell Damage
  • Socketed Gems have 16% more Attack and Cast Speed
  • Can have multiple Crafted Modifiers
  • 9% increased Attack Speed
  • 34% increased Energy Shield
  • +90 to maximum Life
  • Minions deal 20% increased Damage



  • 3. Pure dmg wise it's about the same. Double the balls wich heat half as hard.

    So definitely worth doing this. Would need to updated that guide with it later.

    1337fun
    Sep 13, 2019 13:04:16 PM

    "
    1337fun wrote:
    "
    hobbes3k wrote:

    Actually, I realized if you just use spell cascade for both desecrate and VD then I can raise my unbuffed 5.25 APS (hideout) to 13+ lol. Then I moved combustion to frenzy so I can still apply the -19% fire resist. Lastly, since you only need spell cascade+desecrate on your main hand, you can put an aura (I put anger) for the extra +3 spell levels.

    This is actually a great idea.

    I tested it out a bit and done some theory crafting and here are the results(if i didnt make any mistake).

    1. this brings(theoretically) the difference between enchant and no enchant closer together. From testing in hideout:
    - with enchant consistent 8 balls per cast, sometimes 9, very rarely 7. So average 8.
    - without enchant, 6-8 balls per cast. Average 7.

    So the enchant is "only" 14% more "dps", as compared to before, 33%.
    But this does not take into account the aps gain from extra corpses consumed with enchant. So in reality the dps boost from enchant could be even larger. Would need more in depth testing for and theory crafting to be sure.

    And while clearing there will be exta corpses for more balls.

    2. Very easy to hit aps caps. Switching to this setup in the new dps tree would theoretically cap out the aps at 31.43! But sadly it is not possible, with best CDR gear the cap is slightly under 18 aps.

    On standard test character with barely any attack speed investment i could stay between 12-13 spamming in HO. At around 10 aps while moving(trying to simulate clearing). No frenzy charges. Already this character requires CDR
    Standard test cahr

    tree ,was testing indigon. No attack speed jewels.

    Notable gear:
    The Poet's Pen
    Carved Wand
    Click to expand
  • Damage Penetrates 8% Elemental Resistances
  • +1 to Level of Socketed Active Skill Gems per 25 Player Levels
  • Trigger a Socketed Spell when you Attack with this Weapon
  • Adds 3 to 5 Physical Damage to Attacks with this Weapon per 3 Player Levels
  • 12% increased Attack Speed
  • In every piece of prose, lies a tiny spark of magic.

    The Poet's Pen
    Carved Wand
    Click to expand
  • 20% increased Area of Effect
  • +1 to Level of Socketed Active Skill Gems per 25 Player Levels
  • Trigger a Socketed Spell when you Attack with this Weapon
  • Adds 3 to 5 Physical Damage to Attacks with this Weapon per 3 Player Levels
  • 12% increased Attack Speed
  • In every piece of prose, lies a tiny spark of magic.

    Ghoul Crown
    Bone Helmet
    Click to expand
  • Minions deal 20% increased Damage
  • +24 to maximum Life
  • 3% increased maximum Life
  • +47% to Fire Resistance
  • +24% to Chaos Resistance
  • Nearby Enemies have -9% to Fire Resistance
  • +69 to maximum Life
  • Wrath Vise
    Fingerless Silk Gloves
    Click to expand
  • 16% increased Spell Damage
  • Socketed Gems have 16% more Attack and Cast Speed
  • Can have multiple Crafted Modifiers
  • 9% increased Attack Speed
  • 34% increased Energy Shield
  • +90 to maximum Life
  • Minions deal 20% increased Damage



  • 3. Pure dmg wise it's about the same. Double the balls wich heat half as hard.

    So definitely worth doing this. Would need to updated that guide with it later.


    Quickly tried this out but the lag got pretty bad in maps and im running on a pretty beefy computer.

    (around 15-16 aps with 19% CDR)

    vemman
    Sep 13, 2019 16:02:43 PM

    "
    vemman wrote:
    "
    1337fun wrote:
    "
    hobbes3k wrote:

    Actually, I realized if you just use spell cascade for both desecrate and VD then I can raise my unbuffed 5.25 APS (hideout) to 13+ lol. Then I moved combustion to frenzy so I can still apply the -19% fire resist. Lastly, since you only need spell cascade+desecrate on your main hand, you can put an aura (I put anger) for the extra +3 spell levels.

    This is actually a great idea.

    I tested it out a bit and done some theory crafting and here are the results(if i didnt make any mistake).

    1. this brings(theoretically) the difference between enchant and no enchant closer together. From testing in hideout:
    - with enchant consistent 8 balls per cast, sometimes 9, very rarely 7. So average 8.
    - without enchant, 6-8 balls per cast. Average 7.

    So the enchant is "only" 14% more "dps", as compared to before, 33%.
    But this does not take into account the aps gain from extra corpses consumed with enchant. So in reality the dps boost from enchant could be even larger. Would need more in depth testing for and theory crafting to be sure.

    And while clearing there will be exta corpses for more balls.

    2. Very easy to hit aps caps. Switching to this setup in the new dps tree would theoretically cap out the aps at 31.43! But sadly it is not possible, with best CDR gear the cap is slightly under 18 aps.

    On standard test character with barely any attack speed investment i could stay between 12-13 spamming in HO. At around 10 aps while moving(trying to simulate clearing). No frenzy charges. Already this character requires CDR
    Standard test cahr

    tree ,was testing indigon. No attack speed jewels.

    Notable gear:
    The Poet's Pen
    Carved Wand
    Click to expand
  • Damage Penetrates 8% Elemental Resistances
  • +1 to Level of Socketed Active Skill Gems per 25 Player Levels
  • Trigger a Socketed Spell when you Attack with this Weapon
  • Adds 3 to 5 Physical Damage to Attacks with this Weapon per 3 Player Levels
  • 12% increased Attack Speed
  • In every piece of prose, lies a tiny spark of magic.

    The Poet's Pen
    Carved Wand
    Click to expand
  • 20% increased Area of Effect
  • +1 to Level of Socketed Active Skill Gems per 25 Player Levels
  • Trigger a Socketed Spell when you Attack with this Weapon
  • Adds 3 to 5 Physical Damage to Attacks with this Weapon per 3 Player Levels
  • 12% increased Attack Speed
  • In every piece of prose, lies a tiny spark of magic.

    Ghoul Crown
    Bone Helmet
    Click to expand
  • Minions deal 20% increased Damage
  • +24 to maximum Life
  • 3% increased maximum Life
  • +47% to Fire Resistance
  • +24% to Chaos Resistance
  • Nearby Enemies have -9% to Fire Resistance
  • +69 to maximum Life
  • Wrath Vise
    Fingerless Silk Gloves
    Click to expand
  • 16% increased Spell Damage
  • Socketed Gems have 16% more Attack and Cast Speed
  • Can have multiple Crafted Modifiers
  • 9% increased Attack Speed
  • 34% increased Energy Shield
  • +90 to maximum Life
  • Minions deal 20% increased Damage



  • 3. Pure dmg wise it's about the same. Double the balls wich heat half as hard.

    So definitely worth doing this. Would need to updated that guide with it later.


    Quickly tried this out but the lag got pretty bad in maps and im running on a pretty beefy computer.

    (around 15-16 aps with 19% CDR)


    Ya, I've noticed the lag too, but you just need to "manage" the balls. Just spawn enough and run to the next pack. You don't need to wait for the balls to kill before you move on, otherwise you spawn too much lol.

    I tested in a map and it takes about 4-5 seconds to go from 5.24 APS to around 12-13 APS. Realistically in a tough boss fight, 4-5 seconds is about the maximum you're gonna be standing still holding down right click, so I'm not even sure if CDR is really even needed here.

    I suppose if you get good CDR belts and boots and raise your base APS to like 6+ then you can still max out by 4-5 seconds, but you'll probably lose a bit of life and resists (since you can't use Stygians, you'll need more APS jewels, etc.).

    I was testing Indigon in standard too, but unless you get a LOT of mana, I didn't think the damage was any more than just using Anger+Herald of Ash.

    hobbes3k
    Sep 14, 2019 02:11:25 AM

    How much mana do you need for the Indigon variation to be good?

    I switched to indigon (with desecrate/cascade) and I notice a decease in damage. I sure get twice as many balls but the damage seems lacking.

    Are you building into indigon not worth doing?

    ryukenden
    Sep 15, 2019 10:02:45 AM

    "
    ryukenden wrote:
    How much mana do you need for the Indigon variation to be good?

    I switched to indigon (with desecrate/cascade) and I notice a decease in damage. I sure get twice as many balls but the damage seems lacking.

    Are you building into indigon not worth doing?

    For indigon you need a lot of mana regen. I would say bare minimum 1500. But in general i find indigon not worth it anymore. They should have left the ammoun of spell dmg gain the same and just added the cap. It just takes too long to stack now.

    1337fun
    Sep 15, 2019 10:19:12 AM

    Lag: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSjPXOBAuow

    Uber Elder deathless first attempt this league: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUA80Hao6Zc

    hobbes3k
    Sep 16, 2019 06:12:12 AM

    The part i dont understand then is why this would be worth it? Like said before, you dont gain any DPS (1/2 dmg but 2x number of balls) so why take that extra step where you have to manage your balls for less/no lag?

    I feel like the original setup is just better because its the same dps but no lag-management required.

    If you have to manange the number of balls you wont be able to use the full capabilities of the build and then you wont even have the same dps, you'll have less.

    Maybe i've missed something im not sure.

    vemman
    Sep 17, 2019 13:09:30 PM
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