Forum Index Duelist [3.8 updated] Post-nerfed "Vengeance on Crit" Gladiator. Counter-attacks are still fine. 8m+ dps

History

== UPDATE 3.8 ==

Vengeance's built-in physical damage got a big 66% nerf, but it also has a roughly 25% more damage effectiveness as a compensation.

Damage of the original build with PotCG in 3.7 got at least halved due to the change, but the build idea (vengeance as main damage source) is still viable and worth building around. The itemization needs adjustment, PotCG is no longer an ideal weapon since vengeance got 66% less "spellized", we should go back to some real weapons with decent damage now. At my first thought, dual-wielding Razor of the Seventh Sun and going full elemental conversion would be a way to go. Nope it turns out physical staff is still better.

Revisited this build in Blight league, working great so far.

Completed PoB 3.8: https://pastebin.com/f2B8ZvhM

T16 Crater map (build still in progress):https://youtu.be/Zqdi7-w4c5M

364 Aul: https://youtu.be/Q4HmxE-c6zM

== few changes in 3.8 ==

Spoiler

1. Instead of PotCG/StrStacking, using a staff with some actual damage. Ideally with high dph and crit, Disintegrator and harbinger staff are great uniques. Currently I am using a rare one.

2. Using Mokou's for self-ignite to get the 70% increased from amulet.

3. Shockwave Support on cyclone.

4. Using Herald of Ash instead of Pride when mapping. The overkill burn from big hits of vengeance/shockwave does a decent job cleaning up things.

5. find some cooldown recovery speed on boots and belt.

----

== current 9.1m dps calculations ==
Spoiler



== current setup in 3.8 BSC ==
Spoiler
Vengeance Spell
Ezomyte Staff
Click to expand
  • +18% Chance to Block Attack Damage while wielding a Staff
  • +24 to Strength
  • 71% increased Physical Damage
  • Adds 30 to 60 Physical Damage
  • 14% increased Critical Strike Chance
  • +1 to Maximum Endurance Charges
  • +160 to Accuracy Rating
  • 102% increased Physical Damage
  • 20% chance to Impale Enemies on Hit with Attacks
  • Chimeric Guardian
    Eternal Burgonet
    Click to expand
  • +95 to maximum Life
  • 2% increased maximum Life
  • Regenerate 1% of Life per second
  • Nearby Enemies take 9% increased Physical Damage
  • +1 to Level of Socketed AoE Gems
  • 10% increased Area of Effect
  • Rage Sanctuary
    Astral Plate
    Click to expand
  • +12% to all Elemental Resistances
  • Socketed Gems are Supported by Level 1 Maim
  • Socketed Attacks have -15 to Total Mana Cost
  • +93 to maximum Life
  • +42% to Lightning Resistance
  • 8% increased maximum Life
  • 8% increased maximum Mana
  • Skull Loop
    Topaz Ring
    Click to expand
  • +30% to Lightning Resistance
  • Adds 7 to 12 Physical Damage to Attacks
  • +77 to maximum Life
  • +2 Life gained for each Enemy hit by your Attacks
  • Curse Enemies with Level 12 Assassin's Mark on Hit
  • +2 Mana gained for each Enemy Hit by your Spells
  • +210 to Accuracy Rating
  • Mokou's Embrace
    Ruby Ring
    Click to expand
  • +30% to Fire Resistance
  • 17% increased Fire Damage
  • +40% to Cold Resistance
  • 10% chance to Ignite
  • 20% increased Attack Speed while Ignited
  • 20% increased Cast Speed while Ignited
  • +25% chance to be Ignited
  • Fire makes the perfect blossom in the endless night.

    Eye of Innocence
    Citrine Amulet
    Click to expand
  • +24 to Strength and Dexterity
  • 10% chance to Ignite
  • 70% increased Damage while Ignited
  • Take 100 Fire Damage when you Ignite an Enemy
  • 2% of Fire Damage Leeched as Life while Ignited
  • "...and so He said: 'Let only the good meet my gaze'

    and no eye met His. So He called down the cleansing flames

    and let black smoke sweep the Sinners away."

    - Book of Innocence

    Rune Pace
    Titan Greaves
    Click to expand
  • +22 to Strength
  • 100% increased Armour
  • +26% to Fire Resistance
  • 20% increased Movement Speed
  • 15% increased Cooldown Recovery Speed
  • +69 to maximum Life
  • Grim Bond
    Rustic Sash
    Click to expand
  • 24% increased Global Physical Damage
  • 26% increased Global Physical Damage
  • +62 to maximum Life
  • +48% to Cold Resistance
  • 20% increased Cooldown Recovery Speed
  • +14% to Cold and Chaos Resistances
  • Plague Palm
    Spiked Gloves
    Click to expand
  • 20% increased Melee Damage
  • +47 to Dexterity
  • 75% increased Armour
  • +89 to maximum Life
  • +38% to Fire Resistance
  • +41% to Lightning Resistance
  • 28% increased Damage during any Flask Effect
  • Bubbling Divine Life Flask of Staunching
    -
    Click to expand
  • 50% reduced Amount Recovered
  • 135% increased Recovery rate
  • 50% of Recovery applied Instantly
  • Immunity to Bleeding during Flask effect Removes Bleeding on use
  • Chemist's Diamond Flask of Heat
    -
    Click to expand
  • 23% reduced Charges used
  • Immunity to Freeze and Chill during Flask effect Removes Freeze and Chill on use
  • Lion's Roar
    Granite Flask
    Click to expand
  • Adds Knockback to Melee Attacks during Flask effect
  • Knocks Back Enemies in an Area when you use a Flask
  • 75% chance to cause Enemies to Flee on use
  • 25% more Melee Physical Damage during effect
  • A sprinkle of hunger, a spoonful of menace

    and three generous cups of Might.

    Ample Quicksilver Flask of Adrenaline
    -
    Click to expand
  • +11 to Maximum Charges
  • 30% increased Movement Speed during Flask effect
  • Chemist's Basalt Flask of Warding
    -
    Click to expand
  • 23% reduced Charges used
  • Immune to Curses during Flask effect Removes Curses on use


  • ------

    == Overview ==

    In patch 3.7, most melee skills got "spellized" by GGG -- they make the gems to have built-in base damage just like spells. Among these skills, counter attacks (reckoning/riposte/vengeance) are the most spellized ones, they have some absurd level of base damage built-in which opens some new ways to build around them. I just wanted to exploit the shit out of them.

    At first I made a facebreaker riposte/reckoning build, the damage is crazy but I found the playstyle is a bit too passive for me. And in some fights you just don't have enough things to block and end up having no damage cuz counter attacks never triggered. This makes the damage feels very inconsistent.

    To fix this, I made this build as my 2nd iteration of counter-attack build: using Vengeance instead cuz it triggers when *hit* so it's possible to actively trigger it by self-hitting. Vengeance requires weapon to use so facebreaker is out, but luckily we have the unique staff Pillar of the Caged Gods that serves the same purpose -- providing a fat modifier to scale the built-in base damage.

    Then I need to decide how to hit myself. I have 3 options on the table -- Scolds Bridle, Gluttony and Eye of Innocence. Gluttony triggers on *use*, I don't want to spam my right-click so gluttony is out; Scolds is good but it's nearly impossible to get a correctly enchanted one in current meta and the 30% cdr enchant is too important to give up, so I ended up using Eye of Innocence.

    == Clips/Videos ==
    Spoiler


    == 3.8 Update ==

    T16 Crater map (build still in progress):
    https://youtu.be/Zqdi7-w4c5M

    364 Aul:
    https://youtu.be/Q4HmxE-c6zM



    == 3.7 videos ==
    Spoiler

    Uber Elder 1m41s (feat. eating Elder ExpandingNova): https://youtu.be/ADowHAr_oEk

    Uber Elder 1m55s: https://youtu.be/wtzoYxNhwLw

    random T14 mapping (trying hard not to look like a generic cyclone build): https://youtu.be/EvsKQb17xoc

    Uber Elder 2m15s: https://youtu.be/TpagX19kPLw

    Shaper kill: https://youtu.be/aWHHIQrFuLk

    0link cyclone minotaur kill: https://youtu.be/FDa5IAiwsHE

    hydra/phoenix/minotaur kills: https://youtu.be/I5GVjKb_mjg

    T11 elder kill: https://youtu.be/ji1YAwt-7SA

    Bonus: 3link lv1 Incinerate Uber Elder kill -- just wanted to show it's not a cyclone build, vengeance is where the damage comes from: https://youtu.be/y6NvCaLw4FQ







    == Pros & Cons ==
    Spoiler

    == Pros ==
    1. Damage is good at a reasonable cost. 5m+ damage per vengeance triggered if crit, can even stun uber elder with 0 stun investment.
    2. Perma endurance/frenzy charges generation. Makes ascendancy "Outmatch and Outlast" actually 100% useful in boss fights. (the gladiator feature people been asking for years)
    3. Active playstyle compared to other counter attack builds.
    4. 75/75 block with timeless jewel.

    == Cons ==
    1. Vengeance's AoE is not that big (compared to the new cyclone)
    2. Vengeance's animation looks lame and hard to notice.
    3. Looks just like a generic cyclone build due to cons#2 so it looks very lame.


    == Core Idea TLDR ==
    Spoiler

    how to trigger vengeance?
    1. Cyclone has fire damage
    2. When cyclone crits, it ignites, when you ignite you take a hit from eye of innocence, which has a chance to trigger vengeance.

    how to scale vengeance's damage?
    1. base damage: all comes from vengeance's gem level
    2. Pillar of the Caged God staff provides tons (2000%-ish) of increased to scale the base damage.

    frenzy/endurance charge generation?
    Eye of Innocence + Charge Offensive + Cyclone = perma frenzy/endurance charges generation on hit. (Raider/jugg: I feel robbed)
    oh almost forgot staff has 10% chance to gain EC on crit.


    == pob & calculations ==
    Spoiler

    pob: https://pastebin.com/T4VH5qpx



    This number is before gladiator's double and impale.

    Vengeance has 40%+25%+20%=85% chance to impale; 59%+10%=69% increased impale effect.

    True damage per vengeance triggered is:

    1.49m*2*(1+0.85*0.5*(1+0.69)) = 5.12m

    vengeance cooldown = 1.2s / (1+30%) = 0.92s



    cyclone has 25%+20% chance to impale, 10% impale effect:

    1.34m*(1+0.45*0.5*1.1) = 1.67m

    so ideally the effective DPS of this build is 1.67+5.12/0.92 = 7.23m against shaper, buffed, including vaal warchief.



    == Gears ==
    Spoiler


    Old setup with PotCG in 3.7, not recommended anymore.

    Spoiler

    Overall gears are pretty cheap. 6link PotCG is like 1ex, 2123 vengeance is 5c, 30% vengeance CDR enchant is like 1c, Eye of Innocence 1c, boots 1c, belts 1c... For the rest rares, just get strength resists and life.

    Pillar of the Caged God
    Iron Staff
    Click to expand
  • +18% Chance to Block Attack Damage while wielding a Staff
  • 1% increased Area of Effect per 20 Intelligence
  • 1% increased Attack Speed per 10 Dexterity
  • 16% increased Physical Weapon Damage per 10 Strength
  • Forged to rule the waves and tide

    Destined to serve the monkey's paw

    Strong as a tower of iron

    Deft as the needle doubt

    Damnation Salvation
    Eternal Burgonet
    Click to expand
  • +119 to maximum Life
  • 2% increased maximum Life
  • +28% to Fire Resistance
  • Regenerate 1% of Life per second
  • Nearby Enemies take 9% increased Physical Damage
  • +1 to Level of Socketed AoE Gems
  • 10% increased Area of Effect
  • Eye of Innocence
    Citrine Amulet
    Click to expand
  • +24 to Strength and Dexterity
  • 10% chance to Ignite
  • 66% increased Damage while Ignited
  • Take 100 Fire Damage when you Ignite an Enemy
  • 2% of Fire Damage Leeched as Life while Ignited
  • "...and so He said: 'Let only the good meet my gaze'

    and no eye met His. So He called down the cleansing flames

    and let black smoke sweep the Sinners away."

    - Book of Innocence

    Empyrean Loop
    Two-Stone Ring
    Click to expand
  • +16% to Cold and Lightning Resistances
  • +54 to Strength
  • Adds 15 to 26 Fire Damage to Attacks
  • Adds 2 to 43 Lightning Damage to Attacks
  • +28% to Fire Resistance
  • +48% to Lightning Resistance
  • +55 to maximum Life
  • Rage Hold
    Sapphire Ring
    Click to expand
  • +30% to Cold Resistance
  • +32 to Strength
  • +66 to maximum Life
  • +21 to maximum Mana
  • +22% to Cold Resistance
  • Curse Enemies with Level 8 Assassin's Mark on Hit
  • -7 to Total Mana Cost of Skills
  • Mind Veil
    Loricated Ringmail
    Click to expand
  • +52 to Strength
  • +67 to maximum Life
  • +20 to maximum Mana
  • 10% increased Strength
  • Attacks have +1.39% to Critical Strike Chance
  • 7% Chance to Block Attack Damage
  • Soul Tether
    Cloth Belt
    Click to expand
  • 6% increased Strength
  • 4% increased Intelligence
  • +33 to Intelligence
  • Your Energy Shield starts at zero
  • You cannot Recharge Energy Shield
  • You cannot Regenerate Energy Shield
  • You lose 5% of Energy Shield per second
  • Life Leech effects are not removed at Full Life Life Leech effects Recover Energy Shield instead while on Full Life
  • Gain 4% of Maximum Life as Extra Maximum Energy Shield
  • Vaal bloodpriests were among the earliest intellectuals on record.

    It was they who found that a newly freed soul would

    desperately cling to any other source of life.

    Glyph Nails
    Serpentscale Gauntlets
    Click to expand
  • +54 to Strength
  • +335 to Accuracy Rating
  • +56 to maximum Life
  • 18% increased Rarity of Items found
  • +46% to Lightning Resistance
  • 51% increased Critical Strike Chance against Shocked Enemies
  • +1 to Level of Socketed Melee Gems
  • +1 to Melee Weapon and Unarmed Attack range
  • Alberon's Warpath
    Soldier Boots
    Click to expand
  • Adds 1 to 80 Chaos Damage to Attacks
  • +206 to Armour
  • +10% to Chaos Resistance
  • 20% increased Movement Speed
  • +1 to maximum number of Skeletons
  • 18% increased Strength
  • Alberon walked among the accursed,

    and they welcomed him.





    == Jewels and Timeless Jewel ==
    Spoiler

    For timeless jewel, I choose Lethal Pride - Kiloava, for the double block keystone. Other notables give me: 5% increased strength, 4% increased maximum life, 20% fire resist.

    Ideally you want as many "5% increased strength" or "15% crit multi" as possible.

    for other jewels, crit multi, strength, life and resits are all good affixes, this combination is quite cheap, I got mine less than 5c each.


    == gem links ==
    Spoiler

    mapping & (single target) setups:

    Vengeance - Pulverise - Brutality - mpd (bloodlust) - iAoE (conc effect) - Onslaught (impale)

    cyclone - chance 2 bleed - pulverise (mpd) - infused channeling - fortify - maim

    precision, pride, blood&sand, war banner

    leap slam - vaal ancestral warchief - faster attack, blood rage

    (optional) riposte - melee spalsh - mpd - brutality


    == Bandits ==
    Spoiler
    help Alira for crit multi and resits


    == Discussion ==
    Spoiler

    1. Iron Fortress?
    Spoiler
    Ideally you still want a good elder rare chest, but yes, Iron Fortress is a classic combo with PotCG. It's more attainable and damage-wise it's similar to a perfect tri-suffixes elder rare. And the additional block is good too. The downside is the 10% reduced move speed and more importantly the lack of additional crit chance which hurts the triggering a bit, but you can workaround it by linking increased crit chance gem to your cyclone.

    Overall it's still a good choice in this build.


    2. Is impale on vengeance efficient?
    Spoiler
    Yes, because ANY hits can consume impale stacks. So every time Vengeance impales, cyclone will basically consumes all 5 stacks instantly. So impale is always working at its 100%.

    insobyr
    Jun 30, 2019 04:43:24 AM

    Wa.jpg

    Be quiet make big money.gif

    loonger
    Jun 30, 2019 07:05:17 AM

    Hey,

    i have already seen this build on reddit and its awesome. I started this concept as a reckoning/riposte facebreaker glad but the biggest problem for me was freeing the legion (even with vaal breach couldnt free up almost anything)

    So i am rerolling into this.

    Couple of questions:

    1. Does riposte work with staff when u block? If so can the self inflicted fire damage via amulet by blocked by spell block and thus triggering riposte?

    2. Glad violent retaliation - do u get phys damage and block chance everytime u block the eye of innocence fire hit?

    3. Can u trigger vengenace with heartbound loop ring? Something like Cyclone-cwc-golem? Everytime u resummon the golem u should take the phys damage.

    Thanks for your input and great job with the build.

    xprimalfuryx
    Jun 30, 2019 09:34:32 AM

    "
    1. Does riposte work with staff when u block? If so can the self inflicted fire damage via amulet by blocked by spell block and thus triggering riposte?


    self-hitting cannot trigger riposte or reckoning.

    "
    2. Glad violent retaliation - do u get phys damage and block chance everytime u block the eye of innocence fire hit?


    that's an interesting question, honestly I was not sure if the self-inflicted hits can be blocked or not. I spent 20 regrets to swap to violent retaliation and did some test with scolds and gluttony, I never see my block chance increased by violent retaliation. I think that means self-inflicted hits cannot be blocked, which also explains why they never trigger riposte or reckoning.

    "
    3. Can u trigger vengenace with heartbound loop ring? Something like Cyclone-cwc-golem? Everytime u resummon the golem u should take the phys damage.


    heartbound loop can trigger vengeance but i don't think it will be efficient. Vengeance only has 44% chance to trigger when hit, you need to hit yourself rather frequently to make the trigger feels consistent.

    insobyr
    Jun 30, 2019 10:47:16 AM

    edited

    insobyr
    Jun 30, 2019 10:47:17 AM

    Hi!

    Can i ask you how you can generate frenzy charges in boss fights (sry for my english)?

    nicklencz
    Jul 02, 2019 10:02:24 AM

    Nice Build!!
    I want take a try about sword/shield.
    sword of pdps 370 more and shield of The Surrender
    Shield for 4-link 30LV Reckoning
    other part for 4-link 21LVRiposte and 4-link cyclone
    chest for 6-link Vengeance


    do it work?

    loeyz
    Jul 02, 2019 19:27:04 PM

    "
    nicklencz wrote:
    Hi!

    Can i ask you how you can generate frenzy charges in boss fights (sry for my english)?


    you get endurance/frenzy charges from passive "Charging Offensive", you're constantly hitting yourself with eye of innocence.

    insobyr
    Jul 02, 2019 23:24:04 PM

    Wich Pantheons do you use?

    EduardmYthinho
    Jul 03, 2019 12:48:45 PM

    Brilliant

    Hasunic
    Jul 03, 2019 15:53:57 PM
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