Forum Index Feedback and Suggestions Spectre chest insanity.

History

"
Shieldbreaker wrote:
"
Since a lot of posts have been lost behind many pages of fairly pointless argument here is a bunch of quotes of the constructive posts from the entire thread.

If i missed your post feel free to PM me, Though i've tried to not add quotes of fighting rather constructive input, Thank you to everyone both for and against the topic at hand for discussing it in a constructive manner.


Is it cool if I copy and paste this onto one of my first-page posts?


Have at it lol, I'll keep posting the quotes as needed.

Thread recap
Spoiler
Since a lot of posts have been lost behind many pages of fairly pointless argument here is a bunch of quotes of the constructive posts from the entire thread.

If i missed your post feel free to PM me, Though i've tried to not add quotes of fighting rather constructive input, Thank you to everyone both for and against the topic at hand for discussing it in a constructive manner.

The OP:
"
Shieldbreaker wrote:
Greetings!

This is just a friendly reminder that rare +1 spectre chest, a fairly necessary item for many summoners, is, probably, the hardest to get item in-game. Can easily take hundreds, if not thousands, of hours to get one.

Almost any other build can chaos spam and exalt slam, use prophecies, divination cards, farm shaper/elder influenced areas, grind out uber elders and so on to get their high end chest pieces.

For summoners, if you are life based, or even if you just wish to have an alternative to Vis Mortis, it is basically IMPOSSIBLE. I would kill to only have to find an elder ilvl 85 vaal regalia and craft it with prime resonators.

Instead, you have to Delve, one of the hardest to access contents in the game. I have reached depth 500, have only met two necromancer/aura item nodes, 0 of which dropped a +1 spectre chest, let alone on a good base, let alone with solid mods.

So, for a fairly mediocre-to-ok build (summoners), to have a build-enabling item, you need to spend like 1000 hours+ just to get a crafting base? That you can't fossil or essence craft, so you will probably ruin it by annul+exalt slam, and will, most likely, have to spend another 1000+ hours getting one? And if ever Synthesis/crafting implicits goes core, that will also be unavailable for summoners for chest piece?

Just make the 'Contains necromancer and aura items' node have a chest +1 spectre crafting recipe. If not brutal enough, have an alternative, minion room 3 in incursion that drops a unique-something, combines with several exalt value vial from omnitech to grant a rare chest a crafted +1 spectre, or something. The current system is broken.

Several hour grind, at most, like 100 hours for any build to get a solid chest piece. In 1000 hours, most builds can probably get a mirror-worthy 6x t1 chest. Not spectre sumnmoners. Doesn't seem right.

Thank you for your attention!

Do you believe that it is okay for summoners to have to do x10 or even more the effort, to get a high-end chest armour piece?


"
lompad wrote:
Agreed. Should be made a bit easier to get i think.


"
Pizzarugi wrote:
You can't be upset about not having it if you try and not get it. That what I've gotten used to doing, and I make due with my 3 spectres.

That said, considering the +1 totem craft was slightly improved to be more accessible, it sure would be nice if the +1 spectre mod was turned into a craft mod as well, even if I may not be able to afford to install it.


"
Lilar wrote:
Can agree on that one. With things like +1 totem being so easily available one should definitly consider making spectres chest more available,


"
Suhuy wrote:
Seems fair enought.


"
Shieldbreaker wrote:
Thank you for the support!

An idea I came up with, what if +1 spectre as an expensive craft (1-2 exalted orbs), and unlocked from mastermind? Would still take a long time to get it, and be expensive, but at least would be doable in under 2000 hours.


"
Pizzarugi wrote:

"
Just make the 'Contains necromancer and aura items' node have a chest +1 spectre crafting recipe. If not brutal enough, have an alternative, minion room 3 in incursion that drops a unique-something, combines with several exalt value vial from omnitech to grant a rare chest a crafted +1 spectre, or something. The current system is broken.


I'm wholly in agreement with this.


"
robmafia wrote:
honestly, i think +1 spectre is too strong to have a crafting recipe.

that said, i think a lot of the betrayal crafts are too strong and shouldn't exist, either.


"
andreicde wrote:

I don't care about snapshotting, I'm referring to the whole +1 specter chest. Spectre summoners are extremely squishy, therefore they could use some additional defenses in the current meta where GGG keeps buffing mobs/always caring about speed metas.


"
Saltychipmunk wrote:
It should just be added to the fossil craft pool for chests as a rare mod.

You cannot make it a craft recipe because unlike +1 zombie or +1 skeleton (which are both minor or inconsistent damage boosts thanks to melee minion pathing)

A single spectre is a massive multiplier for damage.

It would easily be the kind of craft mod that takes 2 exalts to make if it were one.

It would also be the only chest mod summoners would use as spectres have utility in pretty much every summoner build you can fit them in .


there is a reason why vismortis is an otherwise shit chest when you remove the + spectre mod


"
Saltychipmunk wrote:

bound fossils are also random, I never said that the spectre mod would be common.

the issue with craft recipes is that you can slap them on anything at the end of the process. So even if 2 exa sounds expensive . if you just throw +1 spectre on a 15 exa chest .. you saved a TON of money.

if it were bound fossils you would need to worry about having a good chest along with hitting the spectre mod.


"
Shieldbreaker wrote:

I know how hard it is to get +1 curse chest, took me about 120-150 Betrayal encounters, so without any trading or prophecies/sextants, can do it in 40-50 days easily just from dailies alone. If you only log in to do Jun daily, can get it in about 4-5h of grind.

Spectre chest is about 200-300 times harder to get. And you can't craft it, and can't get it on a base of ilvl higher than 83, or shaper/elder base, and so on. Assuming the odds of highest tier body armour being 1/10, the spectre chest is 2000-3000 times harder to get. Add in the low chances of good mods, the near impossibility to craft...hence the INSANITY in the title.

That being said, crafting +1 curse is 3 exalted, most expensive craft in-game, so I think if +1 spectre does become a craft option, it should also be 3 exalted.


"
I agree with the OP as a spectre main that has slowly been encouraged not to play my favorite class for a large variety of issues unrelated to this topic.

But one of those issues that is the OPs post literally, its far too difficult to obtain this armour.

i tend to run 2x midnight bargain, my life sucks enough without this insanity, I did not delve nearly as much as the OP in Synthesis league but i did delve a decent amount and never came across a single minion node.

I'm not really angry about how complicated it is to get one of these armours but compared to getting a headhunter i could probably get a couple of those every league much easier than this armour which is still bound to a heavy RNG roll and if you try to anull useless mods you risk losing an item that is almost literally irreplaceable in a leagues lifespan

Edit: i do have one question to ask here though, say that GGG does listen and makes the armour easier to get, perhaps to the point that they are available on the market at a reasonable price.. what happens to vis mortis? does the unholy might still offer enough reason to ever use it.

all changes are going to have a broad effect generally in this game.


"
TreeOfDead wrote:
im agree on that one suggesion

IF like +1 totem being SO easily available WHY should NOT making spectres chest more available? Like rly WTF?

Also STOP NERF SPECTRES!


"
pphnx wrote:

After betrayel players were able to craft op items that can never even imagine before.

They wanted kidney for 370+ pdps jewelled foil in incursion now everyone is hanging around with 450+pdps multimod jewelled foils.

You can get the base for 3-4ex. Jewelled Foil with only one mod. prob dictator's

https://www.pathofexile.com/trade/search/Legion/qv2nzvHg

Or you can buy 6L short bow with just one mod (+1 level gem) for 1-1.5ex
bow for ed/contag

But you cant do that for +1 spectre armor. Bcs its the rarest mod and only one drop area in the entire game chests with +1 spectre (no other mods) starts with 20ex.



"
pphnx wrote:

I'm comparing weapon and chest pieces bcs these are the items that makkes differences.(not mandatory bu good to have) In melee builds dps of the weapon and in summoner builds +1 spectre chest piece make difference.

ex
450+ pdps weapon is not mandatory but good to have (porbably 400pdps would be enough for all content)

+1 spec on boots is not a good to have. it is mandatory. its nearly cheap. easy to craft with (bound pristine on two-tonned boots)
+%90 minion damage is not good to have it is mandatory. its cheap.

Ok lets talk about rare chest piecees of cyclone and summoner builds.

good to have (better than belly of the beast) rare chest piece for cyclone build: (pristine serrated on astral plate not very hard to craft) maim, mana cost flat and % life
https://www.pathofexile.com/trade/search/Legion/X0Dgl4UP
starts with 4ex. with nice life mods.


good to have (better than vis mortis) +1 spectre rare armor. (impossible to craft +1 spectre)
https://www.pathofexile.com/trade/search/Legion/YgX97kIY

nice bases starts with 15 ex. If you want a real nice base to multimod you have to spend +25ex

cycolne stats (maim and mana cost) cost +3-4 ex more and craftable but +1 spectre mod costs +13-14 ex more and impossible to craft.

Thats the point.



"
icovex wrote:

In the POE crafting system, it's basically ridiculous.

Let's look on all crafting system of POE, it gives always several ways in all rare system to obtain possible suffix/prefix for the items, and only in case of +1 spectre to chests, it only drops. At least, based on my knowledge, there is no other modifiers in rare items like this.

I agree, that unique items can be only dropped from some locations, that's why they called "Unique", but rares is different story.

And again, i agree, that this is endgame item, and it should be still precious, and it should not be like crap always available, so for example, conditions that this exists only on elder/shaper body armours of item level 83+ would still make it very valuable. What if in next league there will be no delve? We should die in 1 unique item called Vis Mortis?


"

Totems average at about 4-5 max without the shield, With the boots and chest spectres average at about 4, With the shield 5-6 is your average totem count if you are fully dedicated without a 30% Life reservation UNAFFECTED by reservation nodes per spectre 5+ with midnight bargain on spectres.

With that logic here we'd have +7 totem builds to make it "fair" just so that a summoner could have 4 spectres without the vis mortis without jumping through hoops that honestly you could do for an ENTIRE LEAGUE and never stand a chance at actually finding this item.

Which i have done ^ in tandem with a group of 3-4 people trying for the entire synthesis league.

Lets also bring into play here the fact that when leaving the vis mortis you also lose minion damage and a powerful buff on kill for your spectres, The spectre body armour is random in its base and has to be anulled and heavily crafted to become actually useful, Combine this with the extreme rarity of it being obtainable in delve in literal months of farming and i've officially failed to see any point in the argument provided.



"
icovex wrote:

Let me say it in other way, for example. There is a very rare mod for the wand - 20% reduced Soul Cost of Vaal Skills, it is obtained through:

- Drop in the Delve
- Drop in the Legion
- Crafted through bloodstained fossil.

All of this ways are quite expensive, rare, weapon with this suffix are started from 80 chaos, crap weapons, valuable high tier weapons starting from 1 exalts, and you can receive it elder based/shaper based.

But still! This items are available in different ways to achieve, and not only drops. For some Vaal builds they are mandatory.

And if we will go on, we will find more rare suffixes/prefixes which still can be found in different ways. And this is how POE overall philosophy works, why exactly for "+1 Spectres" it should be different?

If i cannot craft it, i cannot use elder/shaper possible prefixes/suffixes, i cannot create interesting builds with other possible outcomes, for example arcana surge or maim... I need copypaste +1 spectre, multiple crafted modifiers, max life, some of the resistance and +1 to curses. Great and interesting.





"
pphnx wrote:

If a cyclone player can get 6L chest with :
attacks have -15 mana cons
+1 maim support
+100 max life
%8 max life
+may be some resist
(most of the time this is way better than 6L Belly)

With only 5-6 ex


Yea I want my goddamn +1 spectre rare chets at least under 10ex

For powercreep :
Stop it. I dont have a problem with that.
But if you dont make +1 spectre chest more accesible.



"
Veerdna wrote:
From a long time spectre summoner player:

4 spectres is absolutely not mandatory. However, if there exists a body armour with enough defences and +1 spectre, every spectre summoner will use it. Vis Mortis is absolute trash due to no flat life/low es and its offencive bonuses (unholy might and 15% minoin damage) are almost nothing compared to just +1 spectre. Top 3 spectres (IMO solaris guards, CFE and tukohama vanguards) have enough damage for you to just use 3 of them.

Thus, I think that +1 spectre rare armour should stay insanely rare. But current state is beyond absurd. It is the single hardest item ingame to aquire (probably including shaped uniques), because it is not targetfarmable (like hh), craftable (like dex stacking bows or 1000+ es chests) or even chancable (even skyforth, which is not targetfarmable, could be chanced with approximately 12-15K chances). In addition, it's extremely difficult to craft afterwards. Yes, it's a big upgrade and definetely not needed, but it doesn't create such powercreep to be that insane to aquire. For example, maximum es on multimoded vaal regalia with +1 spectre is 515 which is only around 120 more than perfect Vis Mortis. And crafted life on body armour couldn't exceed 113 (with no curse as a prefix, 85 with such). Addind that resists will not exceed a total of 80, we could summarize that an upgrade over Vis Mortis is nothing too impressive for the perfect endgame item (compare to whatever endgame op shaper opal rings, dex stacking bows, insane es chests, melee body armours and ridiculous weapons)

In my opinion there are 2 possible solutions for this situation:
1) Buff Vis Mortis. Add like 50-70 life roll to it. This will make es and life gaps from rare chest almost equal and not as huge as they are atm.
2) Make delve node always drop rare chest with +1 spectre. It will become similar to rare fossil nodes. There still will be rng in getting one of those nodes in delve and in gaining decent base with resonable stats. However, everyone will know that such node is rewarding and there will be much more of those bases on the market.

P.S. This post is not about general powercreep in the game or a powerlevel of certain build/affix/item. Stop making pages of irrelevant discussion, even if such chests would give 100 additional spectres, nothing in poe should be that unaccessable and rng based






SilentSymphony
Aug 14, 2019 10:59:55 AM

lolz @ "recap" being cherrypicked posts to show one-sided bias.

still waiting to hear how annuls are needed to benchcraft, btw.

robmafia
Aug 14, 2019 15:39:58 PM

I'm the one in the guild playing spectre necromancer the most.
I have never used a spectre armour - I never found one.
And I'd like it to be better for my build than a vis mortis, so I couldn_'t take any, I'd have to get the stats I really want on it.
That means a lot of crafting, and that means annulling stats I DON'T want.
What would probably destroy a few armours before I get what I want.
So it WOULD get insanely expensive, making me just want the best base for something like that.
So I wait till I get some currency to get a good base, noticing, now that the league is almost over, there isn't any I like.
I don't see me ever playing with a spectre armour ANY league, I'm noth too good at farming hundreds of exalts in the first week.

For me, it would be just awsome, if you could craft the spectre armour.
You can craft almost everything, but for summoners, there is not much at all.
So you take the vis mortis and whish for a minion node - just to get boots and gloves and helmets, no armour at all.
And even if you get one, how high is the possibility to have the spectres?

I've not seen one minion node this league, by the way.
Ok, I'm not much deeper than 320 this league, but if anyone tells me, they are too common, I'd have to have the possibility to find at least 5 of them just in reaching 300 - not ever going to the side....

nerienna
Aug 15, 2019 13:49:01 PM

Thread recap of constructive posts.

Spoiler
Since a lot of posts have been lost behind many pages of fairly pointless argument here is a bunch of quotes of the constructive posts from the entire thread.

If i missed your post feel free to PM me, Though i've tried to not add quotes of fighting rather constructive input, Thank you to everyone both for and against the topic at hand for discussing it in a constructive manner.

The OP:
"
Shieldbreaker wrote:
Greetings!

This is just a friendly reminder that rare +1 spectre chest, a fairly necessary item for many summoners, is, probably, the hardest to get item in-game. Can easily take hundreds, if not thousands, of hours to get one.

Almost any other build can chaos spam and exalt slam, use prophecies, divination cards, farm shaper/elder influenced areas, grind out uber elders and so on to get their high end chest pieces.

For summoners, if you are life based, or even if you just wish to have an alternative to Vis Mortis, it is basically IMPOSSIBLE. I would kill to only have to find an elder ilvl 85 vaal regalia and craft it with prime resonators.

Instead, you have to Delve, one of the hardest to access contents in the game. I have reached depth 500, have only met two necromancer/aura item nodes, 0 of which dropped a +1 spectre chest, let alone on a good base, let alone with solid mods.

So, for a fairly mediocre-to-ok build (summoners), to have a build-enabling item, you need to spend like 1000 hours+ just to get a crafting base? That you can't fossil or essence craft, so you will probably ruin it by annul+exalt slam, and will, most likely, have to spend another 1000+ hours getting one? And if ever Synthesis/crafting implicits goes core, that will also be unavailable for summoners for chest piece?

Just make the 'Contains necromancer and aura items' node have a chest +1 spectre crafting recipe. If not brutal enough, have an alternative, minion room 3 in incursion that drops a unique-something, combines with several exalt value vial from omnitech to grant a rare chest a crafted +1 spectre, or something. The current system is broken.

Several hour grind, at most, like 100 hours for any build to get a solid chest piece. In 1000 hours, most builds can probably get a mirror-worthy 6x t1 chest. Not spectre sumnmoners. Doesn't seem right.

Thank you for your attention!

Do you believe that it is okay for summoners to have to do x10 or even more the effort, to get a high-end chest armour piece?


"
lompad wrote:
Agreed. Should be made a bit easier to get i think.


"
Pizzarugi wrote:
You can't be upset about not having it if you try and not get it. That what I've gotten used to doing, and I make due with my 3 spectres.

That said, considering the +1 totem craft was slightly improved to be more accessible, it sure would be nice if the +1 spectre mod was turned into a craft mod as well, even if I may not be able to afford to install it.


"
Lilar wrote:
Can agree on that one. With things like +1 totem being so easily available one should definitly consider making spectres chest more available,


"
Suhuy wrote:
Seems fair enought.


"
Shieldbreaker wrote:
Thank you for the support!

An idea I came up with, what if +1 spectre as an expensive craft (1-2 exalted orbs), and unlocked from mastermind? Would still take a long time to get it, and be expensive, but at least would be doable in under 2000 hours.


"
Pizzarugi wrote:

"
Just make the 'Contains necromancer and aura items' node have a chest +1 spectre crafting recipe. If not brutal enough, have an alternative, minion room 3 in incursion that drops a unique-something, combines with several exalt value vial from omnitech to grant a rare chest a crafted +1 spectre, or something. The current system is broken.


I'm wholly in agreement with this.


"
robmafia wrote:
honestly, i think +1 spectre is too strong to have a crafting recipe.

that said, i think a lot of the betrayal crafts are too strong and shouldn't exist, either.


"
andreicde wrote:

I don't care about snapshotting, I'm referring to the whole +1 specter chest. Spectre summoners are extremely squishy, therefore they could use some additional defenses in the current meta where GGG keeps buffing mobs/always caring about speed metas.


"
Saltychipmunk wrote:
It should just be added to the fossil craft pool for chests as a rare mod.

You cannot make it a craft recipe because unlike +1 zombie or +1 skeleton (which are both minor or inconsistent damage boosts thanks to melee minion pathing)

A single spectre is a massive multiplier for damage.

It would easily be the kind of craft mod that takes 2 exalts to make if it were one.

It would also be the only chest mod summoners would use as spectres have utility in pretty much every summoner build you can fit them in .


there is a reason why vismortis is an otherwise shit chest when you remove the + spectre mod


"
Saltychipmunk wrote:

bound fossils are also random, I never said that the spectre mod would be common.

the issue with craft recipes is that you can slap them on anything at the end of the process. So even if 2 exa sounds expensive . if you just throw +1 spectre on a 15 exa chest .. you saved a TON of money.

if it were bound fossils you would need to worry about having a good chest along with hitting the spectre mod.


"
Shieldbreaker wrote:

I know how hard it is to get +1 curse chest, took me about 120-150 Betrayal encounters, so without any trading or prophecies/sextants, can do it in 40-50 days easily just from dailies alone. If you only log in to do Jun daily, can get it in about 4-5h of grind.

Spectre chest is about 200-300 times harder to get. And you can't craft it, and can't get it on a base of ilvl higher than 83, or shaper/elder base, and so on. Assuming the odds of highest tier body armour being 1/10, the spectre chest is 2000-3000 times harder to get. Add in the low chances of good mods, the near impossibility to craft...hence the INSANITY in the title.

That being said, crafting +1 curse is 3 exalted, most expensive craft in-game, so I think if +1 spectre does become a craft option, it should also be 3 exalted.


"
I agree with the OP as a spectre main that has slowly been encouraged not to play my favorite class for a large variety of issues unrelated to this topic.

But one of those issues that is the OPs post literally, its far too difficult to obtain this armour.

i tend to run 2x midnight bargain, my life sucks enough without this insanity, I did not delve nearly as much as the OP in Synthesis league but i did delve a decent amount and never came across a single minion node.

I'm not really angry about how complicated it is to get one of these armours but compared to getting a headhunter i could probably get a couple of those every league much easier than this armour which is still bound to a heavy RNG roll and if you try to anull useless mods you risk losing an item that is almost literally irreplaceable in a leagues lifespan

Edit: i do have one question to ask here though, say that GGG does listen and makes the armour easier to get, perhaps to the point that they are available on the market at a reasonable price.. what happens to vis mortis? does the unholy might still offer enough reason to ever use it.

all changes are going to have a broad effect generally in this game.


"
TreeOfDead wrote:
im agree on that one suggesion

IF like +1 totem being SO easily available WHY should NOT making spectres chest more available? Like rly WTF?

Also STOP NERF SPECTRES!


"
pphnx wrote:

After betrayel players were able to craft op items that can never even imagine before.

They wanted kidney for 370+ pdps jewelled foil in incursion now everyone is hanging around with 450+pdps multimod jewelled foils.

You can get the base for 3-4ex. Jewelled Foil with only one mod. prob dictator's

https://www.pathofexile.com/trade/search/Legion/qv2nzvHg

Or you can buy 6L short bow with just one mod (+1 level gem) for 1-1.5ex
bow for ed/contag

But you cant do that for +1 spectre armor. Bcs its the rarest mod and only one drop area in the entire game chests with +1 spectre (no other mods) starts with 20ex.



"
pphnx wrote:

I'm comparing weapon and chest pieces bcs these are the items that makkes differences.(not mandatory bu good to have) In melee builds dps of the weapon and in summoner builds +1 spectre chest piece make difference.

ex
450+ pdps weapon is not mandatory but good to have (porbably 400pdps would be enough for all content)

+1 spec on boots is not a good to have. it is mandatory. its nearly cheap. easy to craft with (bound pristine on two-tonned boots)
+%90 minion damage is not good to have it is mandatory. its cheap.

Ok lets talk about rare chest piecees of cyclone and summoner builds.

good to have (better than belly of the beast) rare chest piece for cyclone build: (pristine serrated on astral plate not very hard to craft) maim, mana cost flat and % life
https://www.pathofexile.com/trade/search/Legion/X0Dgl4UP
starts with 4ex. with nice life mods.


good to have (better than vis mortis) +1 spectre rare armor. (impossible to craft +1 spectre)
https://www.pathofexile.com/trade/search/Legion/YgX97kIY

nice bases starts with 15 ex. If you want a real nice base to multimod you have to spend +25ex

cycolne stats (maim and mana cost) cost +3-4 ex more and craftable but +1 spectre mod costs +13-14 ex more and impossible to craft.

Thats the point.



"
icovex wrote:

In the POE crafting system, it's basically ridiculous.

Let's look on all crafting system of POE, it gives always several ways in all rare system to obtain possible suffix/prefix for the items, and only in case of +1 spectre to chests, it only drops. At least, based on my knowledge, there is no other modifiers in rare items like this.

I agree, that unique items can be only dropped from some locations, that's why they called "Unique", but rares is different story.

And again, i agree, that this is endgame item, and it should be still precious, and it should not be like crap always available, so for example, conditions that this exists only on elder/shaper body armours of item level 83+ would still make it very valuable. What if in next league there will be no delve? We should die in 1 unique item called Vis Mortis?


"

Totems average at about 4-5 max without the shield, With the boots and chest spectres average at about 4, With the shield 5-6 is your average totem count if you are fully dedicated without a 30% Life reservation UNAFFECTED by reservation nodes per spectre 5+ with midnight bargain on spectres.

With that logic here we'd have +7 totem builds to make it "fair" just so that a summoner could have 4 spectres without the vis mortis without jumping through hoops that honestly you could do for an ENTIRE LEAGUE and never stand a chance at actually finding this item.

Which i have done ^ in tandem with a group of 3-4 people trying for the entire synthesis league.

Lets also bring into play here the fact that when leaving the vis mortis you also lose minion damage and a powerful buff on kill for your spectres, The spectre body armour is random in its base and has to be anulled and heavily crafted to become actually useful, Combine this with the extreme rarity of it being obtainable in delve in literal months of farming and i've officially failed to see any point in the argument provided.



"
icovex wrote:

Let me say it in other way, for example. There is a very rare mod for the wand - 20% reduced Soul Cost of Vaal Skills, it is obtained through:

- Drop in the Delve
- Drop in the Legion
- Crafted through bloodstained fossil.

All of this ways are quite expensive, rare, weapon with this suffix are started from 80 chaos, crap weapons, valuable high tier weapons starting from 1 exalts, and you can receive it elder based/shaper based.

But still! This items are available in different ways to achieve, and not only drops. For some Vaal builds they are mandatory.

And if we will go on, we will find more rare suffixes/prefixes which still can be found in different ways. And this is how POE overall philosophy works, why exactly for "+1 Spectres" it should be different?

If i cannot craft it, i cannot use elder/shaper possible prefixes/suffixes, i cannot create interesting builds with other possible outcomes, for example arcana surge or maim... I need copypaste +1 spectre, multiple crafted modifiers, max life, some of the resistance and +1 to curses. Great and interesting.





"
pphnx wrote:

If a cyclone player can get 6L chest with :
attacks have -15 mana cons
+1 maim support
+100 max life
%8 max life
+may be some resist
(most of the time this is way better than 6L Belly)

With only 5-6 ex


Yea I want my goddamn +1 spectre rare chets at least under 10ex

For powercreep :
Stop it. I dont have a problem with that.
But if you dont make +1 spectre chest more accesible.



"
Veerdna wrote:
From a long time spectre summoner player:

4 spectres is absolutely not mandatory. However, if there exists a body armour with enough defences and +1 spectre, every spectre summoner will use it. Vis Mortis is absolute trash due to no flat life/low es and its offencive bonuses (unholy might and 15% minoin damage) are almost nothing compared to just +1 spectre. Top 3 spectres (IMO solaris guards, CFE and tukohama vanguards) have enough damage for you to just use 3 of them.

Thus, I think that +1 spectre rare armour should stay insanely rare. But current state is beyond absurd. It is the single hardest item ingame to aquire (probably including shaped uniques), because it is not targetfarmable (like hh), craftable (like dex stacking bows or 1000+ es chests) or even chancable (even skyforth, which is not targetfarmable, could be chanced with approximately 12-15K chances). In addition, it's extremely difficult to craft afterwards. Yes, it's a big upgrade and definetely not needed, but it doesn't create such powercreep to be that insane to aquire. For example, maximum es on multimoded vaal regalia with +1 spectre is 515 which is only around 120 more than perfect Vis Mortis. And crafted life on body armour couldn't exceed 113 (with no curse as a prefix, 85 with such). Addind that resists will not exceed a total of 80, we could summarize that an upgrade over Vis Mortis is nothing too impressive for the perfect endgame item (compare to whatever endgame op shaper opal rings, dex stacking bows, insane es chests, melee body armours and ridiculous weapons)

In my opinion there are 2 possible solutions for this situation:
1) Buff Vis Mortis. Add like 50-70 life roll to it. This will make es and life gaps from rare chest almost equal and not as huge as they are atm.
2) Make delve node always drop rare chest with +1 spectre. It will become similar to rare fossil nodes. There still will be rng in getting one of those nodes in delve and in gaining decent base with resonable stats. However, everyone will know that such node is rewarding and there will be much more of those bases on the market.

P.S. This post is not about general powercreep in the game or a powerlevel of certain build/affix/item. Stop making pages of irrelevant discussion, even if such chests would give 100 additional spectres, nothing in poe should be that unaccessable and rng based



"
nerienna wrote:
I'm the one in the guild playing spectre necromancer the most.
I have never used a spectre armour - I never found one.
And I'd like it to be better for my build than a vis mortis, so I couldn_'t take any, I'd have to get the stats I really want on it.
That means a lot of crafting, and that means annulling stats I DON'T want.
What would probably destroy a few armours before I get what I want.
So it WOULD get insanely expensive, making me just want the best base for something like that.
So I wait till I get some currency to get a good base, noticing, now that the league is almost over, there isn't any I like.
I don't see me ever playing with a spectre armour ANY league, I'm noth too good at farming hundreds of exalts in the first week.

For me, it would be just awsome, if you could craft the spectre armour.
You can craft almost everything, but for summoners, there is not much at all.
So you take the vis mortis and whish for a minion node - just to get boots and gloves and helmets, no armour at all.
And even if you get one, how high is the possibility to have the spectres?

I've not seen one minion node this league, by the way.
Ok, I'm not much deeper than 320 this league, but if anyone tells me, they are too common, I'd have to have the possibility to find at least 5 of them just in reaching 300 - not ever going to the side....




So there have been a lot of suggestions in this thread so far and while my personal request to GGG here is to simply make it slightly more common to find in the delve many have suggested other means of modifying how this is obtained that i do not necessarily disagree with but i do think there should be a significant cost to keep the vis mortis attractive in the future.

Some suggest adding a crafting recipe in the delve node where this armour+Mod can be obtained.
- i think this is pretty reasonable giving the rarity of the node in general

Some have said making it a fossil craft. - considering the rarity of other mods from shaper i don't see how this would be a bad way to go either.

That being said the vis mortis is an Energy Shield item and does not work for a majority of potential minion setups these days, This being a game that is about creating the character you want has added a lot of things to allow users to bypass certain unique item barriers such as Tukohama's Fortress which adds an additional totem at the cost of being forced into blood magic now is possible to bypass on a rare shield and this is obtainable in a reasonable amount of time.

The above shield mod is obtainable through Shaper items which are considerably easier to obtain than the spectre mod, This is obtainable by alt spamming which is one of the easiest forms of RNG crafting and generally you have a 50%-100% chance once the mod has rolled to obtain an item with ONLY the mod you want here, the 50% chance being you roll +1 totems and an other mod to be anulled, 100% that you roll the mod by itself, The spectre mod however has an extremely low chance of being crafted to the same point, i'd have to say a 20% chance on a 5 mod, 25% chance on 4 mod, 33% chance on 3 mod, and 50% chance on a 2mod to get to the same point as the totem shield plus its on another plane of existence in difficulty to even obtain the armour in question to begin this process.

This mod for totems is actually taking a users average number of totems above the normal count that a user might have on many of the most common builds before it was added via shaper unlike the +1 Spectre mod which is not taking the user above the average, For this reason i will never give up on this thread and the fact that it is more of an alternate build enabler for me than a means to push my dps into the millions like many users, Having high dps is nice but realising a build that is outside the meta both of the general playerbase and the games base design is the most fun for me, This armour is a part of a great deal of those builds that keep me playing this game.

SilentSymphony
Aug 15, 2019 14:54:19 PM

"
nerienna wrote:
I'm the one in the guild playing spectre necromancer the most.
I have never used a spectre armour - I never found one.
And I'd like it to be better for my build than a vis mortis, so I couldn_'t take any, I'd have to get the stats I really want on it.
That means a lot of crafting, and that means annulling stats I DON'T want.
What would probably destroy a few armours before I get what I want.
So it WOULD get insanely expensive, making me just want the best base for something like that.
So I wait till I get some currency to get a good base, noticing, now that the league is almost over, there isn't any I like.
I don't see me ever playing with a spectre armour ANY league, I'm noth too good at farming hundreds of exalts in the first week.

For me, it would be just awsome, if you could craft the spectre armour.
You can craft almost everything, but for summoners, there is not much at all.
So you take the vis mortis and whish for a minion node - just to get boots and gloves and helmets, no armour at all.
And even if you get one, how high is the possibility to have the spectres?

I've not seen one minion node this league, by the way.
Ok, I'm not much deeper than 320 this league, but if anyone tells me, they are too common, I'd have to have the possibility to find at least 5 of them just in reaching 300 - not ever going to the side....


*sigh*

it's as if this thread is a pattern of power creep, wanting more power creep, and self-imposed restrictions claimed as necessities.

edit: and a reminder to someone

"
robmafia wrote:
lolz @ "recap" being cherrypicked posts to show one-sided bias.

still waiting to hear how annuls are needed to benchcraft, btw.


"
robmafia wrote:
"
Thank you for permanently invalidating your opinion on this topic.

I have won, When the +1 to spectres is anulled the item is therefor destroyed.



can you show me your crafting guide/mirror service thread? i had no idea that we needed to use annulment orbs before benchcrafting an affix onto an item that already had an open affix. i eagerly await this knowledge.

robmafia
Aug 15, 2019 15:55:41 PM

"
Shieldbreaker wrote:
Instead, you have to Delve, one of the hardest to access contents in the game.

You lost me at this point.......

666lol666
Aug 15, 2019 18:28:10 PM

Delve is hard for a lot of toons.
But even if you have the perfect build:

- Minion nodes are extremely rare
- most minion nodes drop other items, not armours
- a summoner would like an armour that has the most useful type and a good base - best tier in game, if you have to use several ex alone for crafting
- often you use the useful cstats before the useless ones - by anulling to get the good stats, you might loose the spectres.

And talking of power creep at summoners is simply wrong - as long as you have stuff like the cyclone build this league with headhunter in timeless coflict - and that's not the only completely overpowered build.

If you want to do something about powe5r creep - why don't you attack the I-clear-everything-solo-in-a-full-party-in-tier-16 builds?
The summoner, even with a perfect rare spectre armour, will never be that opverpowered. There has to be a LOT of changes before that would be possible - including the possibility to summon all the monste4rs you CAN'T resurect as a spectre.

nerienna
Aug 15, 2019 19:20:13 PM

"
nerienna wrote:
Delve is hard for a lot of toons.
But even if you have the perfect build:

- Minion nodes are extremely rare
- most minion nodes drop other items, not armours
- a summoner would like an armour that has the most useful type and a good base - best tier in game, if you have to use several ex alone for crafting
- often you use the useful cstats before the useless ones - by anulling to get the good stats, you might loose the spectres.


each of these is just a complaint about rng.

also, no one has to annul. also, if one is using an annul, it's probably at 6 affixes. which makes this a mere 1:6 chance, anyway. also, it's rng and the point of annulment orbs.


"
nerienna wrote:
And talking of power creep at summoners is simply wrong


false.


"
nerienna wrote:
as long as you have stuff like the cyclone


aaaaaaaaaaaand there it is. again. expecting cyclone, the most OP skill/builds in the game, to be the baseline for balance.

this is what, the 40th time now?

robmafia
Aug 15, 2019 20:14:01 PM

Taking in consideration that the discussion about powercreep in spectres builds is still going, I tried to put a comparison between Vis Mortis and rare armour in PoB.

This is modified setup of the most viewed spectre summoner build on forum (simplified all abyss jewels and reconsider gems and curse setups for solar guards/ for the reference build guide is https://respoe.xyz/forum/view-thread/2181275 and has a bit over 1M views): https://pastebin.com/0V1NcRZP.

Here I have 2 gear setups with only body armour and flask difference. On kill mods for minions are disabled and boss is in shaper/guardian mode. Unholy Might from Vis Mortis is simulated on flask and disabled in rare body armour setup. Second curse is obviously not calculated in Vis Mortis setup.

As a result DPS per spectre in Vis Mortis setup is 633K and player life is 6601. With rare body armour DPS will be 764K per spectre and player life will be 6837. This is over a 500K overall DPS upgrade, which is indeed a lot.

I'm still thinking that such armours are hided behind too much rng. But this:

"
Some suggest adding a crafting recipe in the delve node where this armour+Mod can be obtained. - i think this is pretty reasonable giving the rarity of the node in general

Some have said making it a fossil craft. - considering the rarity of other mods from shaper i don't see how this would be a bad way to go either.

is completely wrong IMO. Being able to combine such powerful mod with other fossil/elder/shaper stuff (like extra phys mitigation, extra lvl of support gems, maim or just a godlike life rolls) will create an absurd powercreep almost at the same lvl we have it for cyclone and ED atm.

I've encountered 6 minion nodes doing endgame delve grind this league. Sadly none of them dropped +1 spectre body armour, but they are not as uncommon as everyone is crying about (comparing to bosses and rare fossil nodes, minion nodes are more common then all of those).

So, the simple solution, as I've already suggested, is to make those nodes drop +1 spectre body armour guaranteed. You'll at least be able to farm it in league time or buy for cheap from others and pray for lucky annuls, while top end bases will still stay at 35+ex range which is perfectly fine for endgame items.

And cyclone powerlvl should not be considered as a comparison point, it's completely overplayed like winter orb was and probably will be adjusted in 3.8 or 3.9

Veerdna
Aug 16, 2019 00:16:23 AM

"
Veerdna wrote:
Taking in consideration that the discussion about powercreep in spectres builds is still going, I tried to put a comparison between Vis Mortis and rare armour in PoB.

This is modified setup of the most viewed spectre summoner build on forum (simplified all abyss jewels and reconsider gems and curse setups for solar guards/ for the reference build guide is https://respoe.xyz/forum/view-thread/2181275 and has a bit over 1M views): https://pastebin.com/0V1NcRZP.

Here I have 2 gear setups with only body armour and flask difference. On kill mods for minions are disabled and boss is in shaper/guardian mode. Unholy Might from Vis Mortis is simulated on flask and disabled in rare body armour setup. Second curse is obviously not calculated in Vis Mortis setup.

As a result DPS per spectre in Vis Mortis setup is 633K and player life is 6601. With rare body armour DPS will be 764K per spectre and player life will be 6837. This is over a 500K overall DPS upgrade, which is indeed a lot.

I'm still thinking that such armours are hided behind too much rng. But this:
"
Some suggest adding a crafting recipe in the delve node where this armour+Mod can be obtained. - i think this is pretty reasonable giving the rarity of the node in general

Some have said making it a fossil craft. - considering the rarity of other mods from shaper i don't see how this would be a bad way to go either.

is completely wrong IMO. Being able to combine such powerful mod with other fossil/elder/shaper stuff (like extra phys mitigation, extra lvl of support gems, maim or just a godlike life rolls) will create an absurd powercreep almost at the same lvl we have it for cyclone and ED atm.

I've encountered 6 minion nodes doing endgame delve grind this league. Sadly none of them dropped +1 spectre body armour, but they are not as uncommon as everyone is crying about (comparing to bosses and rare fossil nodes, minion nodes are more common then all of those).

So, the simple solution, as I've already suggested, is to make those nodes drop +1 spectre body armour guaranteed. You'll at least be able to farm it in league time or buy for cheap from others and pray for lucky annuls, while top end bases will still stay at 35+ex range which is perfectly fine for endgame items.

And cyclone powerlvl should not be considered as a comparison point, it's completely overplayed like winter orb was and probably will be adjusted in 3.8 or 3.9


Good arguments. I have no idea how you get 10% dps increase from rare chest compared to Vis Mortis, 1 more dps curse from rare chest with curse?

A decent fix could be doing what the +1 totem did - making it a shaper/elder mod? Though your idea of just making minion nodes always drop the chest armour would help a ton. Still would need to make the minion nodes a bit more common, in my opinion.

EDIT: Also, making +1 spectre a craft mod would make +1 curse and +1 spectre chests require 3 crafting mods, as opposed to the current 1.

Shieldbreaker
Aug 16, 2019 07:36:33 AM
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