Forum Index Feedback and Suggestions Spectre chest insanity.

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Greetings!

This is just a friendly reminder that rare +1 spectre chest, a fairly necessary item for many summoners, is, probably, the hardest to get item in-game. Can easily take hundreds, if not thousands, of hours to get one.

Almost any other build can chaos spam and exalt slam, use prophecies, divination cards, farm shaper/elder influenced areas, grind out uber elders and so on to get their high end chest pieces.

For summoners, if you are life based, or even if you just wish to have an alternative to Vis Mortis, it is basically IMPOSSIBLE. I would kill to only have to find an elder ilvl 85 vaal regalia and craft it with prime resonators.

Instead, you have to Delve, one of the hardest to access contents in the game. I have reached depth 500, have only met two necromancer/aura item nodes, 0 of which dropped a +1 spectre chest, let alone on a good base, let alone with solid mods.

So, for a fairly mediocre-to-ok build (summoners), to have a build-enabling item, you need to spend like 1000 hours+ just to get a crafting base? That you can't fossil or essence craft, so you will probably ruin it by annul+exalt slam, and will, most likely, have to spend another 1000+ hours getting one? And if ever Synthesis/crafting implicits goes core, that will also be unavailable for summoners for chest piece?

Just make the 'Contains necromancer and aura items' node have a chest +1 spectre crafting recipe. If not brutal enough, have an alternative, minion room 3 in incursion that drops a unique-something, combines with several exalt value vial from omnitech to grant a rare chest a crafted +1 spectre, or something. The current system is broken.

Several hour grind, at most, like 100 hours for any build to get a solid chest piece. In 1000 hours, most builds can probably get a mirror-worthy 6x t1 chest. Not spectre sumnmoners. Doesn't seem right.

Thank you for your attention!

Do you believe that it is okay for summoners to have to do x10 or even more the effort, to get a high-end chest armour piece?

EDIT: The thread got very long, some of the best posts from pages 1-18 were compiled by SilentSymphony, you can find them within post #6 on this thread.

Shieldbreaker
Jun 13, 2019 01:12:33 AM

Agreed. Should be made a bit easier to get i think.

lompad
Jun 13, 2019 06:06:37 AM

You can't be upset about not having it if you try and not get it. That what I've gotten used to doing, and I make due with my 3 spectres.

That said, considering the +1 totem craft was slightly improved to be more accessible, it sure would be nice if the +1 spectre mod was turned into a craft mod as well, even if I may not be able to afford to install it.

Pizzarugi
Jun 13, 2019 11:04:35 AM

Can agree on that one. With things like +1 totem being so easily available one should definitly consider making spectres chest more available,

Lilar
Jun 13, 2019 17:23:53 PM

Seems fair enought.

Suhuy
Jun 13, 2019 22:58:07 PM

Thank you for the support!

An idea I came up with, what if +1 spectre as an expensive craft (1-2 exalted orbs), and unlocked from mastermind? Would still take a long time to get it, and be expensive, but at least would be doable in under 2000 hours.

EDIT:

"
Since a lot of posts have been lost behind many pages of fairly pointless argument here is a bunch of quotes of the constructive posts from the entire thread.

If i missed your post feel free to PM me, Though i've tried to not add quotes of fighting rather constructive input, Thank you to everyone both for and against the topic at hand for discussing it in a constructive manner.

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Pizzarugi wrote:
You can't be upset about not having it if you try and not get it. That what I've gotten used to doing, and I make due with my 3 spectres.

That said, considering the +1 totem craft was slightly improved to be more accessible, it sure would be nice if the +1 spectre mod was turned into a craft mod as well, even if I may not be able to afford to install it.


"
Lilar wrote:
Can agree on that one. With things like +1 totem being so easily available one should definitly consider making spectres chest more available,


"
Suhuy wrote:
Seems fair enought.


"
Shieldbreaker wrote:
Thank you for the support!

An idea I came up with, what if +1 spectre as an expensive craft (1-2 exalted orbs), and unlocked from mastermind? Would still take a long time to get it, and be expensive, but at least would be doable in under 2000 hours.


"
Pizzarugi wrote:

"
Just make the 'Contains necromancer and aura items' node have a chest +1 spectre crafting recipe. If not brutal enough, have an alternative, minion room 3 in incursion that drops a unique-something, combines with several exalt value vial from omnitech to grant a rare chest a crafted +1 spectre, or something. The current system is broken.


I'm wholly in agreement with this.


"
robmafia wrote:
honestly, i think +1 spectre is too strong to have a crafting recipe.

that said, i think a lot of the betrayal crafts are too strong and shouldn't exist, either.


"
andreicde wrote:

I don't care about snapshotting, I'm referring to the whole +1 specter chest. Spectre summoners are extremely squishy, therefore they could use some additional defenses in the current meta where GGG keeps buffing mobs/always caring about speed metas.


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Saltychipmunk wrote:
It should just be added to the fossil craft pool for chests as a rare mod.

You cannot make it a craft recipe because unlike +1 zombie or +1 skeleton (which are both minor or inconsistent damage boosts thanks to melee minion pathing)

A single spectre is a massive multiplier for damage.

It would easily be the kind of craft mod that takes 2 exalts to make if it were one.

It would also be the only chest mod summoners would use as spectres have utility in pretty much every summoner build you can fit them in .


there is a reason why vismortis is an otherwise shit chest when you remove the + spectre mod


"
Saltychipmunk wrote:

bound fossils are also random, I never said that the spectre mod would be common.

the issue with craft recipes is that you can slap them on anything at the end of the process. So even if 2 exa sounds expensive . if you just throw +1 spectre on a 15 exa chest .. you saved a TON of money.

if it were bound fossils you would need to worry about having a good chest along with hitting the spectre mod.


"
Shieldbreaker wrote:

I know how hard it is to get +1 curse chest, took me about 120-150 Betrayal encounters, so without any trading or prophecies/sextants, can do it in 40-50 days easily just from dailies alone. If you only log in to do Jun daily, can get it in about 4-5h of grind.

Spectre chest is about 200-300 times harder to get. And you can't craft it, and can't get it on a base of ilvl higher than 83, or shaper/elder base, and so on. Assuming the odds of highest tier body armour being 1/10, the spectre chest is 2000-3000 times harder to get. Add in the low chances of good mods, the near impossibility to craft...hence the INSANITY in the title.

That being said, crafting +1 curse is 3 exalted, most expensive craft in-game, so I think if +1 spectre does become a craft option, it should also be 3 exalted.


"
I agree with the OP as a spectre main that has slowly been encouraged not to play my favorite class for a large variety of issues unrelated to this topic.

But one of those issues that is the OPs post literally, its far too difficult to obtain this armour.

i tend to run 2x midnight bargain, my life sucks enough without this insanity, I did not delve nearly as much as the OP in Synthesis league but i did delve a decent amount and never came across a single minion node.

I'm not really angry about how complicated it is to get one of these armours but compared to getting a headhunter i could probably get a couple of those every league much easier than this armour which is still bound to a heavy RNG roll and if you try to anull useless mods you risk losing an item that is almost literally irreplaceable in a leagues lifespan

Edit: i do have one question to ask here though, say that GGG does listen and makes the armour easier to get, perhaps to the point that they are available on the market at a reasonable price.. what happens to vis mortis? does the unholy might still offer enough reason to ever use it.

all changes are going to have a broad effect generally in this game.


"
TreeOfDead wrote:
im agree on that one suggesion

IF like +1 totem being SO easily available WHY should NOT making spectres chest more available? Like rly WTF?

Also STOP NERF SPECTRES!


"
pphnx wrote:

After betrayel players were able to craft op items that can never even imagine before.

They wanted kidney for 370+ pdps jewelled foil in incursion now everyone is hanging around with 450+pdps multimod jewelled foils.

You can get the base for 3-4ex. Jewelled Foil with only one mod. prob dictator's

https://www.pathofexile.com/trade/search/Legion/qv2nzvHg

Or you can buy 6L short bow with just one mod (+1 level gem) for 1-1.5ex
bow for ed/contag

But you cant do that for +1 spectre armor. Bcs its the rarest mod and only one drop area in the entire game chests with +1 spectre (no other mods) starts with 20ex.



"
pphnx wrote:

I'm comparing weapon and chest pieces bcs these are the items that makkes differences.(not mandatory bu good to have) In melee builds dps of the weapon and in summoner builds +1 spectre chest piece make difference.

ex
450+ pdps weapon is not mandatory but good to have (porbably 400pdps would be enough for all content)

+1 spec on boots is not a good to have. it is mandatory. its nearly cheap. easy to craft with (bound pristine on two-tonned boots)
+%90 minion damage is not good to have it is mandatory. its cheap.

Ok lets talk about rare chest piecees of cyclone and summoner builds.

good to have (better than belly of the beast) rare chest piece for cyclone build: (pristine serrated on astral plate not very hard to craft) maim, mana cost flat and % life
https://www.pathofexile.com/trade/search/Legion/X0Dgl4UP
starts with 4ex. with nice life mods.


good to have (better than vis mortis) +1 spectre rare armor. (impossible to craft +1 spectre)
https://www.pathofexile.com/trade/search/Legion/YgX97kIY

nice bases starts with 15 ex. If you want a real nice base to multimod you have to spend +25ex

cycolne stats (maim and mana cost) cost +3-4 ex more and craftable but +1 spectre mod costs +13-14 ex more and impossible to craft.

Thats the point.



"
icovex wrote:

In the POE crafting system, it's basically ridiculous.

Let's look on all crafting system of POE, it gives always several ways in all rare system to obtain possible suffix/prefix for the items, and only in case of +1 spectre to chests, it only drops. At least, based on my knowledge, there is no other modifiers in rare items like this.

I agree, that unique items can be only dropped from some locations, that's why they called "Unique", but rares is different story.

And again, i agree, that this is endgame item, and it should be still precious, and it should not be like crap always available, so for example, conditions that this exists only on elder/shaper body armours of item level 83+ would still make it very valuable. What if in next league there will be no delve? We should die in 1 unique item called Vis Mortis?


"

Totems average at about 4-5 max without the shield, With the boots and chest spectres average at about 4, With the shield 5-6 is your average totem count if you are fully dedicated without a 30% Life reservation UNAFFECTED by reservation nodes per spectre 5+ with midnight bargain on spectres.

With that logic here we'd have +7 totem builds to make it "fair" just so that a summoner could have 4 spectres without the vis mortis without jumping through hoops that honestly you could do for an ENTIRE LEAGUE and never stand a chance at actually finding this item.

Which i have done ^ in tandem with a group of 3-4 people trying for the entire synthesis league.

Lets also bring into play here the fact that when leaving the vis mortis you also lose minion damage and a powerful buff on kill for your spectres, The spectre body armour is random in its base and has to be anulled and heavily crafted to become actually useful, Combine this with the extreme rarity of it being obtainable in delve in literal months of farming and i've officially failed to see any point in the argument provided.



"
icovex wrote:

Let me say it in other way, for example. There is a very rare mod for the wand - 20% reduced Soul Cost of Vaal Skills, it is obtained through:

- Drop in the Delve
- Drop in the Legion
- Crafted through bloodstained fossil.

All of this ways are quite expensive, rare, weapon with this suffix are started from 80 chaos, crap weapons, valuable high tier weapons starting from 1 exalts, and you can receive it elder based/shaper based.

But still! This items are available in different ways to achieve, and not only drops. For some Vaal builds they are mandatory.

And if we will go on, we will find more rare suffixes/prefixes which still can be found in different ways. And this is how POE overall philosophy works, why exactly for "+1 Spectres" it should be different?

If i cannot craft it, i cannot use elder/shaper possible prefixes/suffixes, i cannot create interesting builds with other possible outcomes, for example arcana surge or maim... I need copypaste +1 spectre, multiple crafted modifiers, max life, some of the resistance and +1 to curses. Great and interesting.





"
pphnx wrote:

If a cyclone player can get 6L chest with :
attacks have -15 mana cons
+1 maim support
+100 max life
%8 max life
+may be some resist
(most of the time this is way better than 6L Belly)

With only 5-6 ex


Yea I want my goddamn +1 spectre rare chets at least under 10ex

For powercreep :
Stop it. I dont have a problem with that.
But if you dont make +1 spectre chest more accesible.



"
Veerdna wrote:
From a long time spectre summoner player:

4 spectres is absolutely not mandatory. However, if there exists a body armour with enough defences and +1 spectre, every spectre summoner will use it. Vis Mortis is absolute trash due to no flat life/low es and its offencive bonuses (unholy might and 15% minoin damage) are almost nothing compared to just +1 spectre. Top 3 spectres (IMO solaris guards, CFE and tukohama vanguards) have enough damage for you to just use 3 of them.

Thus, I think that +1 spectre rare armour should stay insanely rare. But current state is beyond absurd. It is the single hardest item ingame to aquire (probably including shaped uniques), because it is not targetfarmable (like hh), craftable (like dex stacking bows or 1000+ es chests) or even chancable (even skyforth, which is not targetfarmable, could be chanced with approximately 12-15K chances). In addition, it's extremely difficult to craft afterwards. Yes, it's a big upgrade and definetely not needed, but it doesn't create such powercreep to be that insane to aquire. For example, maximum es on multimoded vaal regalia with +1 spectre is 515 which is only around 120 more than perfect Vis Mortis. And crafted life on body armour couldn't exceed 113 (with no curse as a prefix, 85 with such). Addind that resists will not exceed a total of 80, we could summarize that an upgrade over Vis Mortis is nothing too impressive for the perfect endgame item (compare to whatever endgame op shaper opal rings, dex stacking bows, insane es chests, melee body armours and ridiculous weapons)

In my opinion there are 2 possible solutions for this situation:
1) Buff Vis Mortis. Add like 50-70 life roll to it. This will make es and life gaps from rare chest almost equal and not as huge as they are atm.
2) Make delve node always drop rare chest with +1 spectre. It will become similar to rare fossil nodes. There still will be rng in getting one of those nodes in delve and in gaining decent base with resonable stats. However, everyone will know that such node is rewarding and there will be much more of those bases on the market.

P.S. This post is not about general powercreep in the game or a powerlevel of certain build/affix/item. Stop making pages of irrelevant discussion, even if such chests would give 100 additional spectres, nothing in poe should be that unaccessable and rng based


Shieldbreaker
Jun 14, 2019 04:23:00 AM

"
Pizzarugi wrote:
You can't be upset about not having it if you try and not get it. That what I've gotten used to doing, and I make due with my 3 spectres.

That said, considering the +1 totem craft was slightly improved to be more accessible, it sure would be nice if the +1 spectre mod was turned into a craft mod as well, even if I may not be able to afford to install it.


Did you even read the thread? He said he has only found two necomancer nodes delving like a madman.

kompaniet
Jun 14, 2019 11:33:11 AM

"
kompaniet wrote:
"
Pizzarugi wrote:
You can't be upset about not having it if you try and not get it. That what I've gotten used to doing, and I make due with my 3 spectres.

That said, considering the +1 totem craft was slightly improved to be more accessible, it sure would be nice if the +1 spectre mod was turned into a craft mod as well, even if I may not be able to afford to install it.


Did you even read the thread? He said he has only found two necomancer nodes delving like a madman.


Heh, I wouldn't say as a madman, but I do the Niko daily almost every single day, and sometimes even run some Niko prophecies or scarabs. And I still haven't gotten the chest piece I have been chasing since Delve league. That is what inspired me to make this thread!

Shieldbreaker
Jun 14, 2019 22:26:17 PM

"
kompaniet wrote:
"
Pizzarugi wrote:
You can't be upset about not having it if you try and not get it. That what I've gotten used to doing, and I make due with my 3 spectres.

That said, considering the +1 totem craft was slightly improved to be more accessible, it sure would be nice if the +1 spectre mod was turned into a craft mod as well, even if I may not be able to afford to install it.


Did you even read the thread? He said he has only found two necomancer nodes delving like a madman.


Did you?

"
Just make the 'Contains necromancer and aura items' node have a chest +1 spectre crafting recipe. If not brutal enough, have an alternative, minion room 3 in incursion that drops a unique-something, combines with several exalt value vial from omnitech to grant a rare chest a crafted +1 spectre, or something. The current system is broken.


I'm wholly in agreement with this.

Pizzarugi
Jun 14, 2019 23:04:59 PM

If anyone has any other ideas on how to make the +1 spectre chest more fair, feel free to share!

Shieldbreaker
Jun 15, 2019 08:47:18 AM
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