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Well, actually... speaking of "opening the door" to progress: the combat log is something everyone can probably agree on.

Khalixxa
Aug 22, 2019 22:25:07 PM

Great video, deserves more views.

Got to say though, there can be too much of a capacity base and things can get boring.

Regarding to balance in PoE, it's more like a perfect rate storm. The whole thing uplifted in a ball of chaos. There's no more root. We're all riding the wtfs.


Have fun!

kaepae
Aug 24, 2019 10:17:17 AM

About the death penalty: I don't care anymore. I was angry loosing % exp, then I was like "why bother going over 90?" Lvl 90 is my lvl 100 goal. End of story.

ScoobyPoe
Aug 24, 2019 11:12:29 AM

"
ScoobyPoe wrote:
About the death penalty: I don't care anymore. I was angry loosing % exp, then I was like "why bother going over 90?" Lvl 90 is my lvl 100 goal. End of story.


I think if the difference in power/survivability between 90 and 100 were really as tiny as many people say, more of us would be able to follow your lead.

I for one see a noticeable difference even at only lvl 93 or 94. It gives a hit rate penalty to enemies in addition to the life/mana bonus and additional passives (and the passives alone can make a big difference).

I've never gone above 95, but I suspect the experience is similar for L100 players.

Edit: In any case, my comments are off topic. The point in the video is that there is a vast disconnect between the penalty and the mistake which led to it, which in turn is all-too-often closely linked to damage spikes. And yes, super-spikey damage (from player OR monster) is absolutely horribad for literally any ARPG.

gibbousmoon
Aug 25, 2019 11:23:07 AM

"
Khalixxa wrote:
Well, actually... speaking of "opening the door" to progress: the combat log is something everyone can probably agree on.


It seems to be a widely held desire to have a death log showing the last few damage sources prior to death. Is this something you have plans to add to the game? If so, are there any software/hardware limitations getting in the way that you could describe at a higher level?

For simple scenarios, this isn't too hard to do. If a boss walks up to you and cleanly kills you in two hits, that's not too difficult to track or display to the user. But the reality of modern Path of Exile combat is substantially more complex, with dozens of complex debuffs dealing (or reflecting) small amounts of damage 30 times per second. It's a technical challenge to track all of this data constantly and would introduce additional server performance overhead. I'm not saying we can't/won't do it, just that it's hard and we have a lot of other pressing priorities.

From developer q&a part 2

https://respoe.xyz/forum/view-thread/2500872

kompaniet
Aug 25, 2019 17:23:15 PM

"
kaepae wrote:
Great video, deserves more views.

Got to say though, there can be too much of a capacity base and things can get boring.

Regarding to balance in PoE, it's more like a perfect rate storm. The whole thing uplifted in a ball of chaos. There's no more root. We're all riding the wtfs.


Have fun!


Capacity (resource attrition) doesn't necessarily mean "slower", which is what a lot of folks are worried about. For example, League of Legends has a very good rate/capacity resource balance and the combat portion is still very fast paced. Health and Mana don't have to be completely meaningless for the game to be "fast". There must be more capacity emphasis in PoE, or it will continue to have the other two problems and feel more like an Idle clicker game than an ARPG.

Let me put it this way: the quote "WTF was that?" and "LOL! Was that a boss?" should not so commonly be uttered.

"
ScoobyPoe wrote:
About the death penalty: I don't care anymore. I was angry loosing % exp, then I was like "why bother going over 90?" Lvl 90 is my lvl 100 goal. End of story.


Sure, but the consequences of favoring it persist regardless of what adjustments are made by the players.

People often worry that if the current death penalty were changed "everybody would get to 100 easily". Well, that's interesting, because they're admitting that the game-play poses no legitimate challenge to them, and the death penalty is trying to compensate for it. But, no penalty can ever stand in for a challenge. This is why these problems have to be attacked together.

Khalixxa
Sep 16, 2019 19:19:45 PM

"
Khalixxa wrote:
People often worry that if the current death penalty were changed "everybody would get to 100 easily". Well, that's interesting, because they're admitting that the game-play poses no legitimate challenge to them, and the death penalty is trying to compensate for it. But, no penalty can ever stand in for a challenge. This is why these problems have to be attacked together.

Not really, as said times and times and times again, the lack of a significant penalty on death would mean that running glass cannons would be the absolute best way of building a character in softcore leagues, there would be no incentive to build defences ( as most 'hard' encounters are purely pattern based but the stupid last phase of the elder last phase and Aul pretty much ).

Fruz
Sep 17, 2019 02:34:41 AM

"
Fruz wrote:

Not really, as said times and times and times again, the lack of a significant penalty on death would mean that running glass cannons would be the absolute best way of building a character in softcore leagues, there would be no incentive to build defences ( as most 'hard' encounters are purely pattern based but the stupid last phase of the elder last phase and Aul pretty much ).


Absolutely true. Since we got alternatives though which rely in hindering instead of punishing those could be taken.

For instance reduction of exp-income by a massive amount until a specific threshold is reached. Imagine needing 10 or 20 times as long to get from 99 to 100, that should be more then long enough if someone keeps dying repeatedly. They won't be viable for any race or ladder-positioning and nonetheless it doesn't hinder people to attempt any especially hard content since this method would apply anytime, not only when you got 'deeper' into the level, so the disparity there would be removed.

Details obviously are something to work out, but the base-concept exists and is viable.

Kulze
Sep 17, 2019 04:39:59 AM

"
Fruz wrote:
Not really, as said times and times and times again, the lack of a significant penalty on death would mean that running glass cannons would be the absolute best way of building a character in softcore leagues, there would be no incentive to build defences.


I agree that there needs to be a significant penalty. The question is how to make the penalty significant without sustaining the other two problems discussed. We can probably agree that the current penalty is absolutely not consistent:

1. It can be avoided by ALT-F4
2. It can be avoided by zeroing out level exp
3. It doesn't exist before Kitava is killed the first time

Forget anything else. Imagine how the rest of the game would need to change for the better if the penalty could not be avoided in these absurd ways.



Khalixxa
Sep 17, 2019 06:27:49 AM

"
Khalixxa wrote:
1. It can be avoided by ALT-F4
2. It can be avoided by zeroing out level exp
3. It doesn't exist before Kitava is killed the first time



1. the whole game has been balanced around spike damage because of the power creep and the crappy balance, therefore GGG is forced to allow instant logout so that the whole system does not fall appart.
This one isn't about the xp penalty, it's about the whole system, and the whole system needs to be reworked to get rid of instant log-out properly.
Arguably, it is also one thing that allows players with mediocre connection to still play and avoid potential connection-based-deaths.
The instant log-out has pros too ( adrenalie spikes, if you play HC in PoE, you know what it is. If you play SC, you likely don't )

2. I don't see how that's a problem, haven't "safe thresholds" isn't necessarily a bad thing, just saying "but you can do this" does not make it bad.
Removing that would put the game to a different level in softcore and would just kill it for most casual players, and GGG certainly do not want to do that.

3. The progression is too fast before 80+ level, so I don't quite see how you can penalize players for dying ... even applying the 10% penalty there ( which they should, imho ) is pretty much meaningless.
Although from a very new player, that might matter, I'm not super sure.

Fruz
Sep 17, 2019 06:38:51 AM
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