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"
51 dmg reduction


it's likely much less than that.

robmafia
Jan 17, 2019 22:15:18 PM

"
Cipp wrote:
Getting back to the exp-penalty issue.

There are actually many parts of the game that already penalize dying.

- Maps have limited portals (although you rarely need all 6, so a lost portal often does not matter.)
- Incursions end if you die
- You need to re-do delves if you die.
- Beastcrafting fails if you die
- Some Betrayal encounters end up in failure if you die
- Abysses pretty much fail if you die
- Some Zana missions easily fail if you die (although they messed them up this patch, so there is no point in succeeding in them.)

The timer systems are kind of bad for balancing reasons, but I think these kind of death penalties are much better than the exp-one. You lose an opportunity instead of something you already "have" and you can't trivialize the penalty.

I think these could be improved further. Maybe have a single portal for non-special maps and less loot clutter. Perhaps current act areas would reset if you died, so you have to clear through them again or something. Tangible penalty that forces you to learn and get better.

Still not that clear on how the exp-guest would work and a bit worried on the whole trading aspect of it. Trade-to-win is already too strong in this game.

---

Really discouraged by the GGG on feedback bit.

And even more discouraged by the Chris comment. Any idea on why he thinks like that?



Without the DP people would just plow through the game like destiny 2. We do not want this.

Removing the DP would also make the ladder meaningless. Any old newb can troll the game and throw their body at it until they are the 2 millionth player to hit 100.

I am wondering if anyone has played any other ARPG, where there is no DP. Those are fun for about a week.

We would drown in a sea of bland RPGs if we removed our defining features.

And even the convoluted body retrieval system that is gaining traction with the group of players getting stuck at 90 will be exploited.

nooooodles
Jan 17, 2019 23:27:48 PM

Grim Dawn has a very lenient death penalty(body retrieval one too) but it was not designed with multiplayer in mind. No servers, no seasons, no trade website, the game is strictly single player made for a different kind of audience.

Johny_Snow
Jan 18, 2019 00:12:25 AM

In case you missed it the first time and want to listen to me talk for another 11 minutes (for some reason), this presentation summarizes my position on penalties in general:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3XIzHGUnVE

The arguments "penalties increase challenge" and "penalties teach players" are logically sound, but there are limits. Arguments like these can be rejected as easily in games as they can in real life, for which we can all probably think of many examples.

"Penalties are very thrilling" is a much better type of argument to make if you want to push the "death penalty is fine" idea. As far as I have been able to discern, "thrill" doesn't have an objective logical basis, and thus cannot be defeated by objective logical arguments.

Keep in mind, nobody is making an argument for the complete removal of all death penalties. At most, they are talking about changing them for the sake of other qualities the game has (or could have). So, if you don't want to take the recommended "thrill" road, and want to argue a logical basis for the penalty staying the same, you'll need to, at minimum, answer the following:

How can we tell whether a penalty is appropriate?

You don't need oxford dictionary levels of precision, just show that a standard exists. Does the current penalty hit the bullseye of this standard?

Khalixxa
Jan 18, 2019 00:36:19 AM

"
robmafia wrote:
"
51 dmg reduction


it's likely much less than that.



Well my armours around 13k and its says 51% dmg reduction.. un fortified and I run fortify and endurance charges. Quite honestly, I cant remember a death that wasn't one hit cept maybe in a Vaal temple map where the Degen was to much for the lack of chaos res. But just take a look at my gear Mr. know it all, and tell me where Im going wrong? Farm for 10 exalts to get +1% to something? is that going make the difference? .. which brings up the Gear issue in this game that buddy didn't even want to touch base on cause its so bad. 99% of anything that drops is garbage, and maybe id be able to upgrade if it wasn't required to have res and life on every frigin piece of gear. Endgame is pretty much cookie cutter cause of this.


Millar
Jan 18, 2019 01:17:58 AM

Of course the penalty is good. If it didn't exist classes like gladiator and juggernaut wouldn't be able to work at all. Who would care about defenses when you can gain way more by rushing the content in a quantity gear with elemetalist/deadeye? The defensive ascendancies will only be viable in hardcore. And this will only be the tip of the iceberg. Usually the items which get nerfed/destroyed provide insane defense scaling. So defenses are important now. Without the penalty there wont be any need for them. So classes, items, the core of the game will be highly destabilized and unbalanced.

And no, the alternatives are all the same, people who cant handle dying after 90 looking to soften the pain while making the whole process overly complicated for the others who have no such problem. Pass.

"
Well my armours around 13k and its says 51% dmg reduction


Your mistake is right here.

Johny_Snow
Jan 18, 2019 02:07:42 AM

"
Millar wrote:
"
robmafia wrote:
"
51 dmg reduction


it's likely much less than that.



Well my armours around 13k and its says 51% dmg reduction.. un fortified and I run fortify and endurance charges. Quite honestly, I cant remember a death that wasn't one hit cept maybe in a Vaal temple map where the Degen was to much for the lack of chaos res. But just take a look at my gear Mr. know it all, and tell me where Im going wrong? Farm for 10 exalts to get +1% to something? is that going make the difference? .. which brings up the Gear issue in this game that buddy didn't even want to touch base on cause its so bad. 99% of anything that drops is garbage, and maybe id be able to upgrade if it wasn't required to have res and life on every frigin piece of gear. Endgame is pretty much cookie cutter cause of this.




poe 2019.

make false claims and then double-down on them while giving attitude and namecalling the person you're mockingly asking for help.

robmafia
Jan 18, 2019 02:08:45 AM

"
nooooodles wrote:
Without the DP people would just plow through the game like destiny 2. We do not want this.

Removing the DP would also make the ladder meaningless. Any old newb can troll the game and throw their body at it until they are the 2 millionth player to hit 100.
So the DP is all about making you feel elite, even though most people don't really care about getting to level 100? Why would a newb be bothering with grinding all the way to level 100 every league. And how are they a newb if they are doing that?

Are you saying that the DP is the only think stopping people from getting to level 100? If that is the case, the system is messed up already.

And why did you quote that post if you weren't going to talk about it at all?

"
nooooodles wrote:
I am wondering if anyone has played any other ARPG, where there is no DP. Those are fun for about a week.
We would drown in a sea of bland RPGs if we removed our defining features.
Sorry, but the DP here is the bland generic RPG one. There is nothing original about it.

HousePet
Jan 18, 2019 02:31:46 AM

"
Millar wrote:


Well my armours around 13k and its says 51% dmg reduction..




And do you have any clue how armor works? How damage of a physical hit is calculated? It's on the wiki, look it up.

The short version is that the reduction depends on the damage of the hit, so that there is no set percentage that you mitigate. The percentage in the character sheet is sort of an average. It's basically useless because it doesn't apply to any specific situation.

Miathan51
Jan 18, 2019 02:43:13 AM

"
HousePet wrote:
So the DP is all about making you feel elite, even though most people don't really care about getting to level 100? Why would a newb be bothering with grinding all the way to level 100 every league. And how are they a newb if they are doing that?

Are you saying that the DP is the only think stopping people from getting to level 100? If that is the case, the system is messed up already.

And why did you quote that post if you weren't going to talk about it at all?


Sorry, I am having trouble following you. It is usually the people who get stuck around level 90 who are having these issues. They blame everything but themselves. Instead of realizing that their build and playstyle needs to evolve.

A lot of players will bust out path of building and switch things around until they can progress further instead of cry about it on forums.

But please, have fun with Torchlight or Grim Dawn. No DP. You can just cruise to level 60 or whatever and be done with it.

nooooodles
Jan 18, 2019 03:53:56 AM
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