Forum Index Witch {3.8} Speaker for the Dead | 74 minion Summoner | League Starter, Leveling Guide | 4.7M Shaper DPS 💀

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Did you do some calculations about Flesh Binder survivability vs Puppet Master dps? Because I'm pretty certain that the latter may be better because potential DPS boost while having so many minions will probably be huge and it may be better to just melt bosses faster than be 10% tougher against physical damage.

I would use Commander of Darkness if we didn't want Generosity to not break our DPS output with EE. 20% resistances, some cast speed and 30% more damage for basically free? It would be even easier to boost resistances and gear could be even cheaper then.

Granathar
Apr 10, 2019 09:13:44 AM

"
Hercanic wrote:
@ Mirnaia:
"
Mirnaia wrote:
My Raise Spectre and Desecrate gems have just hit level 20/0. I currently have a level 81 and a level 70something Frost Sentinel, as one of my two 81's died to Atziri some time ago. Do the level of these gems affect spectre level maintenance, or only raising them? In other words, would the following work?

First, do an Oba's map (I know I can do it within the time limit), get two level 84 Frost Sentinels.

Then, in town, do the 20/0 -> 1/20 vendor trade, put the gem back in. Go anywhere else.

Obviously, a level 1 Raise Spectre gem can't raise level 84 spectres, but if I already have them, would they stay there until I re-level the gem? Or do their levels adjust to the maximum allowed by my current one? (…maybe I should have thought about this at the beginning, in case I needed to level another RS gem in my secondary weapon set.)

This is unrelated, but I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere. A Cybil's Paw has "+(5-8) Life gained for each Enemy hit by your Spells", and serves me well as a poor man's shaper ring until I get to the point of acquiring a proper weapon or a proper shaper ring.

That's a good question, which I haven't tested but always just assumed the worst. I usually buy a L1/Q20 Raise Spectre, since they're often very cheap, and level it in my offhand until it catches up in level with the one I got while leveling.

To properly test, I would:

  • 1. Raise a high level spectre from Delve 270+
  • 2. Take it to to Act 6 Twilight Strand, since Zombies are slow and controlled.
  • 3. Check the Spectre's unsupported damage output against zombies to establish baseline.
  • 4. Gem swap a level 1 Raise Spectre. Did I lose my Spectre? If so, repeat steps 1 and 2, and next time gem swap in town.
  • 5. Recheck damage output. Did it change? If the damage dropped to nothing, we have our answer.
  • 6. If gem swapping worked in zone, try going to another zone. This will make sure snapshotting isn't at play.
  • 7. Finally, swap back to the high level gem. Has the damage output been restored?


Thanks for the detailed reply! Unfortunately, we're not going to get an answer today, as I was adventuring with a different character and a 18% quality RS just dropped in Normal Lab ;) Also, you're right, 1/20's are cheap.

Mirnaia
Apr 10, 2019 10:34:40 AM

@ Granathar:

"
Granathar wrote:
Did you do some calculations about Flesh Binder survivability vs Puppet Master dps? Because I'm pretty certain that the latter may be better because potential DPS boost while having so many minions will probably be huge and it may be better to just melt bosses faster than be 10% tougher against physical damage.

I would use Commander of Darkness if we didn't want Generosity to not break our DPS output with EE. 20% resistances, some cast speed and 30% more damage for basically free? It would be even easier to boost resistances and gear could be even cheaper then.

Keep in mind it's not More, but Increased, which means it's added together with our existing 300-400% increased Minion Damage. At that amount, you can estimate the value of additional Increases by dividing it by 5. So 30% = 6% more damage.

We also have more than 100% increased attack/cast speed, so for additional Increases you divide by 2. The more you have, the less it's worth relative to what you already have.

Each minion is slightly different, though. For instance, the Agony Crawler already gets another 880% increased damage, so the value for additional is even less. With that in mind, here's how it breaks down:


Puppet Master would be worth:
(If your minions have killed recently and you've cast Skeletons recently.)
11.8% more damage for Skeletons
10.6% for Phantasms and Spectres
5.6% for Agony Crawler
12.9% for Zombies (-% from less frequent slams)


Commander of Darkness would be worth:
(If paired with a War Banner for a second aura that affects you so you'll get the resistances.)
9.3% more damage for Skeletons
8.4% for Phantasms and Spectres
4.2% for Agony Crawler
10.4% for Zombies (-% from less frequent slams)


War Banner itself would be worth:
(must drop CWDT to fit in; de-link boots to avoid Generosity if you want the CoD resists)
6.7% more damage for Skeletons
5.7% for Phantasms
0.0% for Spectres
4.1% for Agony Crawler
9.2% for Zombies


But all of this is meaningless if you're dead. DPS acts as defense, to a point. Dead monsters can't hurt you, right? ...or can they? On-death effects, immunity phases, proximity shields, environmental effects, lingering effects (Minotaur's falling rocks), Divine shrines, even with infinite DPS you will still take a hit every now and again.

At our level of DPS, what gets in our way isn't so much the raw numbers as it is the ramp-up delay, bosses moving out of melee range of Skeletons, AOE damage wiping out Skeletons, things that are rooted in the mechanics of our skills.

This is why I prioritize defense over further DPS. 10% reduction doesn't sound like much, until you survive that one hit with a dozen life left.

Another way to look at it is you can get 20% increased minion damage and 8% increased attack/cast speed on a jewel, almost the entire damage buff of Puppet Master (same conditionals). For one jewel. The most you can get for Physical Damage Reduction on a jewel is 2%, but only if you weren't hit recently.

The real value of Puppet Master, I'd say, is 40% longer Vaal Skeletons. They're worth 6.7M DPS while up.

Hercanic
Apr 10, 2019 19:43:37 PM

I can't find your PoB anywherr, what's the Pastebin link?

CanadianYeti
Apr 10, 2019 23:04:39 PM

@ CanadianYeti:

"
CanadianYeti wrote:
I can't find your PoB anywherr, what's the Pastebin link?

Open "I Accept" -> EVERYTHING YOU NEED

Hercanic
Apr 10, 2019 23:59:30 PM

@Hercanic, the build feels really powerful but I have one big problem and I want your advice. I am currently level 94 and want to go at least to 96 before the end of the league. The problem is that I am dying 95% of the times due to corpse explosions on the ground. I have around 6700 life. From everything else I feel save but these "corpse explosions" constantly kill me especially in the Nexus. Can I build another layer of defense regarding this? Thanks.

YYakovliev
Apr 13, 2019 10:11:42 AM

"
YYakovliev wrote:
@Hercanic, the build feels really powerful but I have one big problem and I want your advice. I am currently level 94 and want to go at least to 96 before the end of the league. The problem is that I am dying 95% of the times due to corpse explosions on the ground. I have around 6700 life. From everything else I feel save but these "corpse explosions" constantly kill me especially in the Nexus. Can I build another layer of defense regarding this? Thanks.


Are you totally sure you are dying cause explosions, or may be other different things?

Im level 96 now, have like you, around 6900ish life, and I don¡t use CWDT nor Spirit Offering.

And I have not died even one single time to corpse explosions in the entire game, not even close.

So I don't think what's exactly happening here.

Valmar
Apr 13, 2019 15:38:18 PM

"
Valmar wrote:
"
YYakovliev wrote:
@Hercanic, the build feels really powerful but I have one big problem and I want your advice. I am currently level 94 and want to go at least to 96 before the end of the league. The problem is that I am dying 95% of the times due to corpse explosions on the ground. I have around 6700 life. From everything else I feel save but these "corpse explosions" constantly kill me especially in the Nexus. Can I build another layer of defense regarding this? Thanks.


Are you totally sure you are dying cause explosions, or may be other different things?

Im level 96 now, have like you, around 6900ish life, and I don¡t use CWDT nor Spirit Offering.

And I have not died even one single time to corpse explosions in the entire game, not even close.

So I don't think what's exactly happening here.


I am not a master at the game and I can't tell for sure if there are several types of corpse explosions or it is another "spell" or something else is happening. I am certain that in such situations everything is dead, I Charge Dash or move into a dead pack and BOOM I am dead. EVERY F*** time :). Since the original post I died 4 more times due to this. Nothing else is killing me, just this… constantly.

I forgot to mention that I am missing Fortify in my setup because I am using flame dash (I cannot imagine playing without flame dash), but if this is the core of the problem I will switch to Shield Charge...

YYakovliev
Apr 13, 2019 16:46:36 PM

"
YYakovliev wrote:
"
Valmar wrote:
"
YYakovliev wrote:
@Hercanic, the build feels really powerful but I have one big problem and I want your advice. I am currently level 94 and want to go at least to 96 before the end of the league. The problem is that I am dying 95% of the times due to corpse explosions on the ground. I have around 6700 life. From everything else I feel save but these "corpse explosions" constantly kill me especially in the Nexus. Can I build another layer of defense regarding this? Thanks.


Are you totally sure you are dying cause explosions, or may be other different things?

Im level 96 now, have like you, around 6900ish life, and I don¡t use CWDT nor Spirit Offering.

And I have not died even one single time to corpse explosions in the entire game, not even close.

So I don't think what's exactly happening here.


I am not a master at the game and I can't tell for sure if there are several types of corpse explosions or it is another "spell" or something else is happening. I am certain that in such situations everything is dead, I Charge Dash or move into a dead pack and BOOM I am dead. EVERY F*** time :). Since the original post I died 4 more times due to this. Nothing else is killing me, just this… constantly.

I forgot to mention that I am missing Fortify in my setup because I am using flame dash (I cannot imagine playing without flame dash), but if this is the core of the problem I will switch to Shield Charge...



Uhm could be bearers? I mean, flame bearers, frost bearers, etc? The ones that make like a big ring around them when dead, and you die if you enter the circle.

If that's the cause, they are not like porcupines, and I understand what you said. I stopped using charge dash because of that, I think its an aweful skill, so I changed it for Blade Flurry, wich is 400% more reliable and better than charge dash in almost every way. I almost didnt died since I changed, in like level 88 or something (96 now).


I also recommend you to use convocation (it's like a +300% damage boost a lot of times. mayme more, its a poersonnal estimation, plus blocking and reposition, wich let you clean maps like 300% faster, its uncomparable), and other skill you like (phase run, golem, animate guardian, or even phase run if you like it, etc), you can remove the CWDT + offering for 2 of those skills, you wont really need them with your army plus convocation, etc.


Give it a try, thank me later!

Valmar
Apr 14, 2019 05:05:40 AM

Top build, absolutely loving it at the moment and so far I've taken it to Level 89 on T11 maps. I think I'm starting to plateau in terms of performance so I'm wondering if anyone can give some tips as to what I need to focus on next?

For what it's worth, I have ~200 chaos in reserve for my next upgrade.

Banana_Lee
Apr 14, 2019 10:20:46 AM
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