Forum Index Witch [3.6] Zombiemancer - High Survivability - End Game Viable

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is viable with 5 links?

Emibjr
Oct 25, 2017 23:46:13 PM

Have you tried lycosidae instead of victario's?

insobyr
Oct 25, 2017 23:56:13 PM

"
hwat wrote:
I'm not a pro in creating the builds, but I've played Fire Golems necro and there are good additions there: CWDT > Desecrate > Bone Offering works like a charm. Another CWDT is Immortal Call > Phase Run > Increased Duration.

Spirit Offering is the heart of this build, it's why you can go afk in breaches. It gives offensive and defensive stats. If you wanna use other Offering setups you should use it on a pure Life or ES build instead.


"
Emibjr wrote:
is viable with 5 links?

Drop the Minion Speed gem, you dont give up much dps. You drop some clearspeed without it, but it doesnt hurt much.


"
insobyr wrote:
Have you tried lycosidae instead of victario's?

If you wanna use Lycosidae on this build you need to get Necromantic Aegis, means you have to give up 4 passive points somewhere else, usually Life nodes since you need all the strength, jewel and zombie nodes.
You also give up all the stats of Victario's Charity. Life, ele resistances, chaos resistance, block chance, all of this is nice to have.

Clooney_is_best_Batman
Oct 26, 2017 05:47:47 AM

"
"
hwat wrote:
I'm not a pro in creating the builds, but I've played Fire Golems necro and there are good additions there: CWDT > Desecrate > Bone Offering works like a charm. Another CWDT is Immortal Call > Phase Run > Increased Duration.

Spirit Offering is the heart of this build, it's why you can go afk in breaches. It gives offensive and defensive stats. If you wanna use other Offering setups you should use it on a pure Life or ES build instead.


"
Emibjr wrote:
is viable with 5 links?

Drop the Minion Speed gem, you dont give up much dps. You drop some clearspeed without it, but it doesnt hurt much.


"
insobyr wrote:
Have you tried lycosidae instead of victario's?

If you wanna use Lycosidae on this build you need to get Necromantic Aegis, means you have to give up 4 passive points somewhere else, usually Life nodes since you need all the strength, jewel and zombie nodes.
You also give up all the stats of Victario's Charity. Life, ele resistances, chaos resistance, block chance, all of this is nice to have.



well just to let you know vs shaper level content a lycosidae is an 85% more multiplier on zombies

its how i got my crit zombie build into the 2 million shaper dps area with just 5 zombies

Saltychipmunk
Oct 26, 2017 14:59:48 PM

He did not say not to use Lycosidae. He said you would have to maneuver 4 points to make it work. And you lose the ability to block / life and chaos res / a large chunk of lightning res in the process.

It seems like a really bad idea, just for '2 mil shaper dps'. You did not agree to his reasonable resolution of your point, and instead turned the conversation into 'my way is better for a different reason, in case you didn't know'.

Congrats.

When it comes to clearing shaper, specifically, builds have to tackle with a single conceit: can it clear shaper or not. That's it. After you succeed, then you can consider modifications to improve that. Not having a shield / block, losing resistances, losing 4 points of invested HP, and still reaching the prerequisite 1200 strength for 6 zombies seems like a terrible idea for PoB 'paper dps.'

Yes. Accuracy helps your minions, and not being able to miss means their damage looks better. Does it help qualify the first condition of clearing shaper? No. Does it directly impact the chance of clearing shaper? Yes. Seems bad.

As someone who is playing the build myself, I think improving suvivability and keeping the playstyle 'one button' is the main emphasis. The fact that the damage is sufficient to kill shaper is awesome, and a plus, but as OP stated it's shaper viable. It doesn't need to be a 4 second shaper killing machine. Summoners are about a playstyle, not the meta. Sometimes summoners have some builds that align with meta sensibilities, but as OP said it's about consistency and convinience in play style.

I don't think anyone cares about your shaper dps in a different build. You came into this build to brag about yours, and didn't accept OP's time and energy to conceed your request with a thoughtful answer.

*edit*: You're also running an umbilicus, sin's rebirth / diamond flasks / atziri's promise for your zombies, offset your blocking with bone offering, and run a pure-es build. You've essentially gone up to an apple farmer and said 'hey my oranges are better'. wat.

Kwitch
Oct 26, 2017 23:18:26 PM

"
Kwitch wrote:
He did not say not to use Lycosidae. He said you would have to maneuver 4 points to make it work. And you lose the ability to block / life and chaos res / a large chunk of lightning res in the process.

It seems like a really bad idea, just for '2 mil shaper dps'. You did not agree to his reasonable resolution of your point, and instead turned the conversation into 'my way is better for a different reason, in case you didn't know'.

Congrats.

When it comes to clearing shaper, specifically, builds have to tackle with a single conceit: can it clear shaper or not. That's it. After you succeed, then you can consider modifications to improve that. Not having a shield / block, losing resistances, losing 4 points of invested HP, and still reaching the prerequisite 1200 strength for 6 zombies seems like a terrible idea for PoB 'paper dps.'

Yes. Accuracy helps your minions, and not being able to miss means their damage looks better. Does it help qualify the first condition of clearing shaper? No. Does it directly impact the chance of clearing shaper? Yes. Seems bad.

As someone who is playing the build myself, I think improving suvivability and keeping the playstyle 'one button' is the main emphasis. The fact that the damage is sufficient to kill shaper is awesome, and a plus, but as OP stated it's shaper viable. It doesn't need to be a 4 second shaper killing machine. Summoners are about a playstyle, not the meta. Sometimes summoners have some builds that align with meta sensibilities, but as OP said it's about consistency and convinience in play style.

I don't think anyone cares about your shaper dps in a different build. You came into this build to brag about yours, and didn't accept OP's time and energy to conceed your request with a thoughtful answer.

*edit*: You're also running an umbilicus, sin's rebirth / diamond flasks / atziri's promise for your zombies, offset your blocking with bone offering, and run a pure-es build. You've essentially gone up to an apple farmer and said 'hey my oranges are better'. wat.



Well i was pointing out that lycho is not a small source of dps. Alot of people dont realize how bad the accuracy situations is for minions like srs and zombies. they only have around a 55- 60% chance to hit in end game content.

So what I am pointing out is that while yes you do lose block and and stats as well as 4 passives by going na with lycho.. you have to consider that it is a rather massive damage boost.

(not to mention the op has already out right admitted he has zombie durability issues so the block on the zombies could be appreciated)

and you can argue that this damage boost is so massive that you could easily drop things from other parts of your build and more than make it up.

for example weighing that 6th zombie .. vs 85% more zombie damage. that 6th zombie is less than 20% of your builds damage . but to get it you need to go 200 str over the last baron str threshold AND you need an extra zombie on the tree or on gear.

you need to seriously think about these kind of things before outright dismissing the suggestion.


I was using my build as an example as without lycho i would be at around 1.2 mill dps (which is pretty close to what the op has ) It is a good reference especially since i already went though the trouble of compiling the numbers.

I am not sure i deserve such a snide and dickish response from you. since all i was doing was informing with a quantifiable number what people are losing by not going lycho. you arent even the op. you are white knighting over nothing... And I am not entirely sure the op would appreciate you starting shit in his build guide thread so needlessly.

Go take a dip in some ice water or something because you need to chill out.

Saltychipmunk
Oct 27, 2017 14:31:50 PM

"
Well i was pointing out that lycho is not a small source of dps. Alot of people dont realize how bad the accuracy situations is for minions like srs and zombies. they only have around a 55- 60% chance to hit in end game content.


Yeah its certainly a huge dps loss particularly for zombies where you have roughly half (then srs) and they hit slowly so misses are very impactful.

Fhark
Oct 28, 2017 05:12:28 AM

Overall a big fan of the build for a late league starter character.

Currently 86 doing pretty well with zombies in 4L Baron while working towards a better Geofri's.

No regen maps are doable with a Praxis or Elreon ring, worst case you lose a zombie or need to unsocket Faster Attacks.

Swapping Minion Damage for Physical to Lightning lets my zombies do physical reflect maps so no mods have posed any issues yet.

Gearing is interesting since at least late into a league it's mostly cheap, common uniques excluding 3 rares and a 6 link. Granted 400 of my strength comes from 4 Brawns and 2 Efficient Trainings so early league may be challenging.

Leveling before 1k strength still worked decent, just squishier. Shaper's Touch and Geofri's Sancutary provide a good amount of cushion to let you charge into packs with Baron's leech and Spirit Offering keeping you topped off. Without that higher base effective HP and sustain charging into packs can abruptly be lethal so would probably recommend going with rare gloves and body with strength/life early league then switch over later.

I'm running 2 Undying Evangelists right now to have a bit of range and bubbling. At least until T10s they seem to survive fine with just Minion Life and Hatred/Spirit does decent damage. For a single socket they seem to easily perform well enough.

Also agree that glove enchantment "of light" is awesome. It creates Consecrated Ground so doesn't stack with other sources. By charging into packs you are often taking critical hits so it triggers a good amount. I think the only other real options are Reflect and Grave to get some minions, though more defense seems more useful than gimpy melee pets.

While Spirit is very similar to Aegis where you constantly get more shield than damage you take, it is limited on corpses and Desecrate charges. Harder Harbingers or for packs that don't leave corpses can quickly chunk you.

A pretty huge change in play style from Spectre based necromancers and was exactly what I was looking for to leverage Baron, thanks!

antibreeder
Nov 07, 2017 23:47:13 PM

"
antibreeder wrote:
Swapping Minion Damage for Physical to Lightning lets my zombies do physical reflect maps so no mods have posed any issues yet.

But you lose a lot of dps when you proc Elemental Equilibrium with that gem. I dont know what your current zombie damage is, but later on i dont think that would be enough to prevent them from killing themselves to reflect.

"
antibreeder wrote:
Also agree that glove enchantment "of light" is awesome. It creates Consecrated Ground so doesn't stack with other sources. By charging into packs you are often taking critical hits so it triggers a good amount. I think the only other real options are Reflect and Grave to get some minions, though more defense seems more useful than gimpy melee pets.

So you actually take enough crits that it triggers often enough to justify it? Nice to hear, i thought it would not be worth. It's the best glove enchant then for this build. I use the ice SRS one, so i wasnt able to test it myself yet.

"
antibreeder wrote:
A pretty huge change in play style from Spectre based necromancers and was exactly what I was looking for to leverage Baron, thanks!

That's what i tried to go for with this build, glad you like it.

Clooney_is_best_Batman
Nov 08, 2017 14:24:18 PM

Hi, I just (very expensive) converted to this build from a (very broken) ES/Spark and I am loving it, after some work I have managed to achieve 1000 str, but not sure where the next 200str are going to come from. I am new at this, so I may be missing something obvious. Seems if I follow the tree most of the rest of the nodes left are damage nodes. Mind taking a peek at mine and make a suggestion? Thank you very much, and thanks for the fun build guide :)

ClaudiaOctavia
Nov 17, 2017 23:59:04 PM
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