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one simple question..

dooes this skill and Blade Vortex works with 3 nodes of Essence Sap.?

it's written on Essence Sap :
- 0.6% attack damage leeched as mana
- +2 mana gained for each enemy hit by your attack

revelation please guys,..

onnymaru
Dec 20, 2015 13:27:56 PM

No. Both Fall and Vortex are Spells, not Attacks.

Vipermagi
Dec 20, 2015 15:44:52 PM

Bladefall right now is absolutely ridiculous. All you need is a 3link, the witch start damage and 2-4 other damage nodes on top and you've got yourself a map-viable DPS. I currently don't see any reason to use any other spell for leveling 24-70.

Even if you specifically spec for something else, bladefall will do more damage. Not only does it have higher base than EK (taking cast speed in account, about the same dps) but it also shotguns, hitting each target 2-5 times. The clearspeed is absurd, it one or two shots all packs with no investment.
In its current state it makes leveling (for me) faster than ever and transitioning from the skill to your final build becomes just sad.

Quite honestly, I think either removing the shotgunning or a 30-50% damage nerf would be totally reasonable.

Awenna
Dec 20, 2015 19:44:58 PM

"
Awenna wrote:
I currently don't see any reason to use any other spell for leveling 24-70.

Besides, you know, fun. An interesting time. Variety. A change of pace.
Note: this is not a statement on whether it has to be rebalanced or not.

"
Awenna wrote:
Quite honestly, I think either removing the shotgunning or a 30-50% damage nerf would be totally reasonable.

If only the leveling phase is problematic (you have given no information on its scaling), then there's no reason to give it a blanket nerf such as removing its multi-hitting potential. Just reduce its low-level base Damage, as GGG always does :P

Also worth mentioning: there are no Skills that can shotgun. There are a lot of Skills that can hit multiple times. These are not the same thing.

Vipermagi
Dec 20, 2015 22:40:54 PM

"
Vipermagi wrote:
If only the leveling phase is problematic (you have given no information on its scaling), then there's no reason to give it a blanket nerf such as removing its multi-hitting potential. Just reduce its low-level base Damage, as GGG always does :P


I have a character mainly using Blade Vortex who's currently on his way to Merc Dominus, and my spell totem has Bladefall on it.

I don't know if it's just my build or what, but with no totem specific investment and only Faster Casting buffing the damage, it seems to do almost as much damage as my Blade Vortex.

Mind you, I'm doing what is probably an inefficient but "fun" build with Herald of Thunder and Added Lightning damage buffing Blade Vortex, but when compared to the similarly unspeced spell totems I made on my Glacial Cascade character last league the damage seems in a whole different league, and it has the whole time I've been using it.

Normally I'm wary of the OMG IT'S OP WHARGLEBLARGHGHLAHGL type reaction, because people frequently bandwagon onto the stupidest stuff. But this time, I'm honestly expecting nerfs, of the nuke it into the ground type.

"
Vipermagi wrote:
Also worth mentioning: there are no Skills that can shotgun. There are a lot of Skills that can hit multiple times. These are not the same thing.

There is no effective difference if the spell damage is delivered fast enough.

Let's say you have a multi projectile attack that shotguns. For the sake of simplification, three projectiles.

On the other hand, you have a spell that overlaps, and/or hits multiple times on a single enemy in its AoE within a short period of time. For the sake of simplification, three times.

Now let's say both of these spells have a a half second cast time, and deliver their full damage in less than half of a second, again for the sake of simplification. Both of them will effectively deal the same damage within each cast cycle window, assuming no outside factors, and thus it's largely a null point whether it's "shotgunning" or not.

It might make a small difference if the target is moving and a few hits of the ability miss as a result, but if you're in the middle of the cast you're going to eat the same damage one way or the other. Anyone who's died to a bunch of Bone Rhoas or Goatmen attacking them in a rapid chain prior to the recent change has seen that personally.

Do note that I'm not even necessarily saying it should be nerfed. I actually think most abilities in this game are underpowered, and overall PoE suffers from D2 syndrome, where everything but a handful of builds is weak at any given time (without expensive gear, anyway).

What I am saying is that it clearly seems like it's overperforming in comparison to other options, and whether or not it's shotgunning doesn't change that it hits very fast, very hard. So I totally expect it to get slammed with nerfs.

XaoG
Dec 21, 2015 00:52:32 AM

Oops, accidentally double posted, ignore this. >_>

XaoG
Dec 21, 2015 00:57:21 AM

The difference between shotgunning and multi-hitting is relevant because shotgunning never happens in Path of Exile since patch 2.0. Fireball does not shotgun anymore, but it can still hit multiple times - multiple Projectiles have to hit different targets (or environment) nearby to land more than one Hit on a single target.
Yes, it's a pretty pedantic point. :) However, because one mechanic does exist and the other explicitly does not, using the "incorrect" term is needlessly confusing.

----
It does sound like Bladefall's damage is a tad on the high end. Jeez :p Blade Vortex is known to be pretty effective to boot.

Vipermagi
Dec 21, 2015 03:21:54 AM

"
Vipermagi wrote:
The difference between shotgunning and multi-hitting is relevant because shotgunning never happens in Path of Exile since patch 2.0


When talking about something like Bladefall I find no difference between the two words. The spell can hit the same target multiple times with a single cast, most of us know that as shotgunning. For now I'll use "hit multiple times" to avoid confusion.

"
Vipermagi wrote:
If only the leveling phase is problematic (you have given no information on its scaling), then there's no reason to give it a blanket nerf such as removing its multi-hitting potential. Just reduce its low-level base Damage, as GGG always does :P


I can only speak for the leveling / early map portion as I only have a lvl 70 character on HC at the moment but judging by wiki and experience there is no way the skill will have a drop-off in damage. So yes, I think there is a need for a blanket nerf.
In case you haven't tried the skill, it has a comparable DPS to EK, except that hits half the screen, has no target cap and hits the same monster 2-4 times, dealing 2-4x effective damage. Sounds like something needing a huge nerf =/


E: Sorry for the reply on older posts. You corrected some of what you said and I'm too lazy to edit my response :D <3

Awenna
Dec 21, 2015 13:01:54 PM

I thought Blade vortex was good until I slotted a level 14 bladefall gem in my blade vortex setup with all the wasted duration nodes and survival nodes to face tank. OMG. with a level 14 gem I was doing Arid lakes maps. Same or more damage as 17 vortex without the risk and ramp up spam of the vortex gem and more AOE. May need to tune it down so risk = reward and be in line with other ranged spells. Right now no other ranged spell is close. It's like a Flamesurge that covers whole screen.

Character level 95
I spent like 70 regrets repecing after that experience.

From this blade vortex
https://www.pathofexile.com/fullscreen-passive-skill-tree/AAAAAwYBA-4EBwSzBUIFtQceCPQN0Q5ID6sRLRGWFe0WvxzcHb4gbiLqIvQkiyaVKPoqCyo4LJwwcTGeMtEzhzWSOkI64TwFPV8_J0GHQZZFR0WdSVFKyEt4TLNN41AwUlNTUlS9VUtVxlltXEBd8l-YYeJjQ2SdakNqjGwLbRluqnBSdf18g3_GgseD24RvhMWJ04w2jb-PGo_6kyeVLpaLl5WX9Jrgm7Wf36IAotmmV66zsNi1SLXytz64k8BUwGbDOsgUzzLQ9dQj1ELVudi9217dqOOE6Nbr7uv173zwH_DV8h3yRfVv-ej-Cv6P?accountName=Aim_Deep&characterName=Jumpin_Jack_Slash


to this bladefall
https://www.pathofexile.com/fullscreen-passive-skill-tree/AAAAAwYBBAcEswVCBbUHHgj0DkgPqxEtES8RlhXnFe0Wvxo4G8gc3CBuIuoi9CSLJpUnLyoLKjgsnC3SMHEy0TpCOlg8BT1fQZZFR0WdSVFLeEyzUDBSU1NSVL1VS1XGXEBd8mHiYqxjQ2SdZlRqQ2qMbAtsjG0ZcFJzs3X9fIN_xoKbg9uEb4TFhXuFfYnTjDaNv48aj_qQVZMnlS6Wi5eVl_SaO5rgm7Wdqp_fogCi2a6zsNi1SLmTvOrAVMBmwwnDOsgUz93Q9dQj1ELVptW5217dqOOE6Nbr7uv17DjtPO988B_wa_DV8YryHfVv?accountName=Aim_Deep&characterName=Jumpin_Jack_Slash


Aim_Deep
Dec 22, 2015 14:53:47 PM

"
Vipermagi wrote:
The difference between shotgunning and multi-hitting is relevant because shotgunning never happens in Path of Exile since patch 2.0. Fireball does not shotgun anymore, but it can still hit multiple times - multiple Projectiles have to hit different targets (or environment) nearby to land more than one Hit on a single target.
Yes, it's a pretty pedantic point. :) However, because one mechanic does exist and the other explicitly does not, using the "incorrect" term is needlessly confusing.

----
It does sound like Bladefall's damage is a tad on the high end. Jeez :p Blade Vortex is known to be pretty effective to boot.


Blade vortex is deserved high DPS. You're in melee range to deliver it and danger associated with that range. It's AOE is pathetic by comparison. Really IMO ICE and SHOCK nova are better mappers as far as center on caster spells. Vortex can own bosses/ST like few others though.

Aim_Deep
Dec 22, 2015 15:02:45 PM
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